When to call the Technical

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the crew sends a player off to change a jersey (or whatever), then it is the crew's responsibility to monitor the situation. When the notification is made to make the uniform adjustment a caveat needs to accompany it, "please make sure your player leaves the visible confines of the gym." "I don't pay attention to the bench" is not acceptable in this situation.

Man, you guys are really splitting hairs here. I'm fairly certain I've never informed a player that they need to change their jersey and not had the coach tell them to go in the locker room. That's because I tell them to do it somewhere else. I'm also 100% certain that I'm not going to hold up a game to watch a player leave the confines because it's my responsibility to monitor the situation. I'm going to tell the coach to get it taken care of, and then when the player tries to check in again, I'm going to make sure the situation is rectified. If it is brought to my attention that the player is in the act of doing something illegal, I'll T. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it because it's a minuscule part of the game that is going to take care of itself 100% of the time. If a guys says to me after the fact "Hey, why didn't you T him up for changing in the confines," there is a pretty good chance that I didn't see him doing it, and I'm not going to make up some excuse as to why I didn't T, I'm going to tell them that I didn't see it. Ref it how you want, but like I said, any ref worth his salt is going to say "Coach, get it taken care of, and make sure I can't see him/you when he/you does/do." I don't really think it's worth the time that I've already put into this discussion, and I think you guys are reaching for an argument here where there really isn't one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Man, you guys are really splitting hairs here. I'm fairly certain I've never informed a player that they need to change their jersey and not had the coach tell them to go in the locker room. That's because I tell them to do it somewhere else. I'm also 100% certain that I'm not going to hold up a game to watch a player leave the confines because it's my responsibility to monitor the situation. I'm going to tell the coach to get it taken care of, and then when the player tries to check in again, I'm going to make sure the situation is rectified. If it is brought to my attention that the player is in the act of doing something illegal, I'll T. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it because it's a minuscule part of the game that is going to take care of itself 100% of the time. If a guys says to me after the fact "Hey, why didn't you T him up for changing in the confines," there is a pretty good chance that I didn't see him doing it, and I'm not going to make up some excuse as to why I didn't T, I'm going to tell them that I didn't see it. Ref it how you want, but like I said, any ref worth his salt is going to say "Coach, get it taken care of, and make sure I can't see him/you when he/you does/do." I don't really think it's worth the time that I've already put into this discussion, and I think you guys are reaching for an argument here where there really isn't one.

"Coach, #23 can't play with that undershirt, it's the wrong color. make sure he leaves the visual confines before he changes, though."

I do this about 2 or 3 times a year sometimes.

[Rich]

Some people will do whatever is necessary to avoid calling a technical foul.

Including lie, it appears.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by Rich

Some people will do whatever is necessary to avoid calling a technical foul.

Including lie, it appears.

If that's referring to me, can you point me to the lie? If I tell a guy to change and leave, I'm not eagle eyeing him to make sure he does. If I told a coach "I didn't see it," I'm saying it because I didn't not because it isn't true.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not reaching for anything. I'm saying how the situation is handled properly, which in my cases has always been before the game started. So I can't use the cop-out that I'm not paying attention to the benches since I'm standing there doing nothing else except staring in the direction of the benches.

I ref everything like I want. What I don't do is come up with these big-timing claims that I'm too busy to handle the responsibilities of my job.

I was under the impression that the discussion was centered around blood. I don't ever remember seeing blood on a jersey during warm ups.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Man, you guys are really splitting hairs here. I'm fairly certain I've never informed a player that they need to change their jersey and not had the coach tell them to go in the locker room. That's because I tell them to do it somewhere else. I'm also 100% certain that I'm not going to hold up a game to watch a player leave the confines because it's my responsibility to monitor the situation. I'm going to tell the coach to get it taken care of, and then when the player tries to check in again, I'm going to make sure the situation is rectified. If it is brought to my attention that the player is in the act of doing something illegal, I'll T. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it because it's a minuscule part of the game that is going to take care of itself 100% of the time. If a guys says to me after the fact "Hey, why didn't you T him up for changing in the confines," there is a pretty good chance that I didn't see him doing it, and I'm not going to make up some excuse as to why I didn't T, I'm going to tell them that I didn't see it. Ref it how you want, but like I said, any ref worth his salt is going to say "Coach, get it taken care of, and make sure I can't see him/you when he/you does/do." I don't really think it's worth the time that I've already put into this discussion, and I think you guys are reaching for an argument here where there really isn't one.

I'm not reaching for anything. I'm saying how the situation is handled properly, which in my cases has always been before the game started. So I can't use the cop-out that I'm not paying attention to the benches since I'm standing there doing nothing else except staring in the direction of the benches.

I ref everything like I want. What I don't do is come up with these big-timing claims that I'm too busy to handle the responsibilities and duties not directly related to calling fouls and violations.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I was under the impression that the discussion was centered around blood. I don't ever remember seeing blood on a jersey during warm ups.

Well you spouted off like I'm some rookie looking to make up stuff. Players in warm-ups get notified when they are wearing illegal T-shirts, which is 100% of the times it has occurred in my situations.

Players with blood get sent to the trainer first to see if the situation can be remedied. If they have to change I wouldn't know that b/c by that time we are playing the game again.

[deecee]

I would NEVER instruct a coach or player to do something and then have the excuse that I did not see what transpired. At the least I would retort with, "I saw XYZ player head out the gym" but I would never have the balls to say "O I told the coach to have him change off the confines then I didn't see anything."

The only time I have a response with I didn't see anything is

1) contact out of my PCA
2) something happened behind me unexpected

Otherwise I always see something. It may not be useful, but it's something.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well you spouted off like I'm some rookie looking to make up stuff. Players in warm-ups get notified when they are wearing illegal T-shirts, which is 100% of the times it has occurred in my situations.

Dad posted

I agree. Sort of. However, if I know a player has blood on his shirt and needs to change, I'm miraculously paying no attention to anyone but the players on the court. In other words, it's not something I'm meticulously watching for.

That's what I was talking about. I didn't even realize anyone was talking about undershirts at any point other than the guy talking about the Australian national team. Where in the world did I "spout off" like you're "some rookie looking to make up stuff?"

Anyway, to get back to the actual topic, I don't have a T for the kid leaving the bench after fouling out. If you do, I don't have a problem with but that's not something that I'm going to chase down and worry about late in a game where the action is likely intensifying.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Dad posted

I agree. Sort of. However, if I know a player has blood on his shirt and needs to change, I'm miraculously paying no attention to anyone but the players on the court. In other words, it's not something I'm meticulously watching for.

That's what I was talking about. I didn't even realize anyone was talking about undershirts at any point other than the guy talking about the Australian national team. Where in the world did I "spout off" like you're "some rookie looking to make up stuff?"

Anyway, to get back to the actual topic, I don't have a T for the kid leaving the bench after fouling out. If you do, I don't have a problem with but that's not something that I'm going to chase down and worry about late in a game where the action is likely intensifying.

Players with blood on their jersey get inspected by the trainer first. They are not instructed by us to change their uniform unless it cannot be appropriately cleaned.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think Title IX forced that rule upon us.

Not really. Many high school girls consider sports bras to be nothing more than two piece bathing suit tops. I know, I coached at many summer camps where girls have to change their reversible jerseys from game to game. They think nothing of changing in front of dozens of people, including men and boys.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I seem to recall that an official can't SEND the team member to the lockerroom unaccompanied; but I don't know that it's up to us to monitor what happens after we send the player to the bench.

10.5 SITUATION: (a) The head coach is charged (directly or indirectly) with a
third technical foul, or a second direct technical; or (b) A1 commits a flagrant
technical foul against B1. RULING: In (a), the coach shall leave the vicinity or the
playing area and have no further contact with the team. The official has no option
and may not set aside the provision which requires removal. This also applies to
all adult bench personnel who receive two technical fouls. In (b), the flagrant
technical foul disqualifies A1 from further participation in the contest. A disqualified
team member or student bench personnel shall go to or remain on the
bench. However, in an unusual situation, an official has the authority to require
that these individuals who have committed a flagrant technical foul must leave the
vicinity of the court. This action is necessary when permitting such offenders to
remain at courtside would tend to incite the crowd, to incite the opponents, or to
subject the officials, opponents or others administering the game, to unsporting
harassment. In such circumstances, the official should require the individual who
has committed a flagrant foul to leave the vicinity of the court with an adult supervisor.
It must be emphasized that an official does have this authority, when the
circumstances resulting from any flagrant foul warrant it. (10-5 Note)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not really. Many high school girls consider sports bras to be nothing more than two piece bathing suit tops. I know, I coached at many summer camps where girls have to change their reversible jerseys from game to game. They think nothing of changing in front of dozens of people, including men and boys.

I think that was part of his point. The NFHS can't put in a rule just for girls. So while the rule may have been implemented because of the facts you lay out here, it has to be applied to both genders.

[BlueDevilRef]

Most locker rooms are within about 25 feet of their bench, so why is this a big deal to anyone? Inform coach of the issue (blood, illegal undershirt, whatever) and tell coach to make sure they change in locker room. I'm in the camp that this takes care of the issue. And if for some oddball reason they go shirtless right there, pretty much the easiest T you would ever have to write up.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not really. Many high school girls consider sports bras to be nothing more than two piece bathing suit tops. I know, I coached at many summer camps where girls have to change their reversible jerseys from game to game. They think nothing of changing in front of dozens of people, including men and boys.

Originally Posted by Adam

I think that was part of his point. The NFHS can't put in a rule just for girls. So while the rule may have been implemented because of the facts you lay out here, it has to be applied to both genders.

I have to remember to use blue font and emoji's for Billy.