The Name Game (Shirley Ellis, 1964) ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nothing in those definitions says they have to be present.

Agree, even though it's contrary to the stupid IAABO refresher exam interpretation.

But how about the injured kid not in uniform on the bench (this is the kid whose name my partner had erased)? Do the NFHS rules address that?

10-1-1: A team shall not: Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team
member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10
minutes before the scheduled starting time.

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player

So, would it be legal, or illegal, for the scorebook roster to include an adult assistant coach who is on the bench (bench personnel but not a team member), not eligible to play, and not in uniform? (Stupid question, but sometimes extremes can clear things up that are otherwise muddled.) Erase, or ignore? (Pretend its a written test question.)

[Eastshire]

The rules say you have to list each team member. It doesn't say you can only list team members. So it's a lower limit, not an exact requirement.

There is no rule which prevents bench personnel from being listed in the scorebook.

Around here, it's hit and miss with partners who want to cross out anyone not present/not in uniform..

Edit: And furthermore, the team isn't responsible for what goes in the scorebook anyways. It's only responsible for the list provided to the scorer. Although the argument there is the same: at least all the team members, no upper limit.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

The rules say you have to list each team member. It doesn't say you can only list team members. So it's a lower limit, not an exact requirement.

There is no rule which prevents bench personnel from being listed in the scorebook.

Around here, it's hit and miss with partners who want to cross out anyone not present/not in uniform..

Edit: And furthermore, the team isn't responsible for what goes in the scorebook anyways. It's only responsible for the list provided to the scorer. Although the argument there is the same: at least all the team members, no upper limit.

That is the key. If some overly officious official wants to erase names from the book, then so be it. But if that player is later sent to the table to report in to the game, there is no penalty AS LONG AS THAT PLAYER'S NAME AND THE CORRECT NUMBER WAS PROPERLY PROVIDED TO THE SCORER PRIOR TO THE 10 MINUTE MARK.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Around here, it's hit and miss with partners who want to cross out anyone not present/not in uniform.

Eastshire: You've seen this before, with multiple colleagues? So this really isn't an exercise in counting angels on the head of a pin?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...

So, would it be legal, or illegal, for the scorebook roster to include an adult assistant coach who is on the bench (bench personnel but not a team member), not eligible to play, and not in uniform? (Stupid question, but sometimes extremes can clear things up that are otherwise muddled.) Erase, or ignore? (Pretend its a written test question.)

Seriously Billy, why? As in why are you asking this question? Is this helping newer officials who are looking for real world applications of the rules? To me, all you're doing is confusing them with these questions that nobody asks but you.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Seriously Billy, why? As in why are you asking this question? Is this helping newer officials who are looking for real world applications of the rules? To me, all you're doing is confusing them with these questions that nobody asks but you.

This forum is actually in 100% agreement on this. That should tell you something.

I think you're trying to hard to justify your partner's decisions here. That's admirable, but futile.

[rockyroad]

From games last Friday...

C Team (freshman) game and JV game going on at the same time in adjacent gyms. Player is playing first half of C team game and second half of JV game. So he is listed in both books.

According to BillyMac's partner, we would have to erase his name from the JV book since he is not warming up with them. And then we would have to issue a T for adding his name to the JV book in the second half.

Good luck with that.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

From games last Friday...

C Team (freshman) game and JV game going on at the same time in adjacent gyms. Player is playing first half of C team game and second half of JV game. So he is listed in both books.

According to BillyMac's partner, we would have to erase his name from the JV book since he is not warming up with them. And then we would have to issue a T for adding his name to the JV book in the second half.

Good luck with that.

Even if BillyMac's partner requeires him to be erased from the JV Book because he wasn't there for the start, you do NOT have to issue a T for adding his name back in the second half as long as his name and number were provided to the scorer prior to the 10 minute mark before the scheduled start time of the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Even if BillyMac's partner requeires him to be erased from the JV Book because he wasn't there for the start, you do NOT have to issue a T for adding his name back in the second half as long as his name and number were provided to the scorer prior to the 10 minute mark before the scheduled start time of the game.

BillyMac's partner would have the kid's name and number stricken from the team member list submitted to the scorer.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

From games last Friday...

C Team (freshman) game and JV game going on at the same time in adjacent gyms. Player is playing first half of C team game and second half of JV game. So he is listed in both books.

According to BillyMac's partner, we would have to erase his name from the JV book since he is not warming up with them. And then we would have to issue a T for adding his name to the JV book in the second half.

Good luck with that.

That's because the NFHS rules are written for high school varsity contests, not to cover situations involving kids participating in multiple subvarsity games. It says so on the very first page of the NFHS rules book.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's because the NFHS rules are written for high school varsity contests, not to cover situations involving kids participating in multiple subvarsity games. It says so on the very first page of the NFHS rules book.

Except that in our state, all HS contests follow NFHS rules and procedures unless the WIAA has a noted exception (shot clock for example).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Except that in our state, all HS contests follow NFHS rules and procedures unless the WIAA has a noted exception (shot clock for example).

That is how it is with most of us that work in our state. We have some amendments to the uniform rule because of all the uniform problems with had in our state.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

I think you're trying to hard to justify your partner's decisions here. That's admirable, but futile.

He was the referee. I just let him do his thing and argue with the coach ("I always list my entire roster. Nobody has ever asked me to erase a name before."). I felt that he was being overly officious, and I didn't even broach the subject with him after the game. I brought this to the Forum to get a definitive answer so that the next time he does this (he's done this before), I can hit him where it hurts with a citation, or two, like the posts from Eastshire, Camron Rust, and Adam (above).

For your information, I asked the same question to my local interpreter. He said more names are better than fewer names.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

He was the referee. I just let him do his thing and argue with the coach ("I always list my entire roster. Nobody has ever asked me to erase a name before."). I felt that he was being overly officious, and I didn't even broach the subject with him after the game. I brought this to the Forum to get a definitive answer so that the next tine he does this, I can hit him where it hurts with a citation, or two.

OK, so let him strike all he wants if he doesn't want a name in the book simply because that individual does not appear to be there or ready to play.

My question is, if you KNOW that name WAS in the book, or WAS submitted on the roster given before the 10 minute mark, and he had it stricken, and then that player goes to check in, are you going to let your partner assess a technical foul if he wants to?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, so let him strike all he wants if he doesn't want a name in the book simply because that individual does not appear to be there or ready to play.

My question is, if you KNOW that name WAS in the book, or WAS submitted on the roster given before the 10 minute mark, and he had it stricken, and then that player goes to check in, are you going to let your partner assess a technical foul if he wants to?

I have to let my partner assess any foul that he wishes. I have no authority to prevent him from doing so. It's in the rules that the officials cannot overrule the decisions of each other made within their purview.