NBA Finals: Game 1 Durant End of Game Drive/Shot

[APG]

This is the play people have been talking about at the end of game 1 last night.



Decided to make a new thread as this should garner more discussion since the other topic title wasn't clear.

Couple of points...Steve Javie, when asked about it on SportsCenter last night, said it was a foul (and I agree). He also talked about Tom Washington's positioning at the lead on the play and how he should have closed down.

[ODog]

These were my thoughts last night ...

Live: "Didn't look like much."

Replay: "Oh wow, he hooked him!"

I guess, in hindsight, I'm with Javie on the fact that closing down would've resulted in Washington seeing the shenanigans, but this whole thing went down in about 1.1 seconds, so I've got no issue with the no-call there, if only because we've all been in this spot before and know what it likely looked like without the benefit of replay -- not much.

[APG]

Also, any thoughts on the possible loose ball foul by LeBron on Westbrook on the rebound?

[JRutledge]

I do not have a foul here. If I have to look at slow motion replay to say there is a foul, then it was not a foul.

Durant was not unable to do anything he wanted to do while throwing up a fade away shot. It would only be a foul for me if he was prevented from shooting a clean shot. He was able to rise with both arms under control. Whatever contact took place was minimal or insignificant IMO.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not have a foul here. If I have to look at slow motion replay to say there is a foul, then it was not a foul.

Durant was not unable to do anything he wanted to do while throwing up a fade away shot. It would only be a foul for me if he was prevented from shooting a clean shot. He was able to rise with both arms under control. Whatever contact took place was minimal or insignificant IMO.

Peace

My thoughts as well - I believe the NBA guys go by the idea that if the "guy in the 50th row" can't see the foul, you probably shouldn't be making that call. Nothing prevented Durant from getting a clean shot away.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

My thoughts as well - I believe the NBA guys go by the idea that if the "guy in the 50th row" can't see the foul, you probably shouldn't be making that call. Nothing prevented Durant from getting a clean shot away.

Is that the 50th row on the sideline or the endline?

You really shouldn't miss the ones the guy in the 50th row can see...but any official with a backbone will call a foul that deserves to be called when he sees it even if it means he is the only one to have seen it.

Once, I had a coach quite vigorously disagree with a foul I called. He called me a couple days later (on an unrelated topic) but brought up the play and aplogiezed. He watch the film and then saw the foul. Not every foul is obvious all the time form every angle.

[Dealone]

I can understand the fast motion no-call. But slow motion shows that during the initial phase (critical phase where Durant is already in shooting motion and lifting into the shot) LeBron not only touches an elevating arm, but he absolutely hooks Durant at the waist while Durant was elevating into the shot. It absolutely was a foul. But that is slow motion. Fast motion, seven seconds left (time shouldn't matter but does), I wouldn't have called a foul.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Is that the 50th row on the sideline or the endline?

You really shouldn't miss the ones the guy in the 50th row can see...but any official with a backbone will call a foul that deserves to be called when he sees it even if it means he is the only one to have seen it.

Once, I had a coach quite vigorously disagree with a foul I called. He called me a couple days later (on an unrelated topic) but brought up the play and aplogiezed. He watch the film and then saw the foul. Not every foul is obvious all the time form every angle.

I think that is the key, angle. From his angle, Washington probably didn't see the foul.

I'm not sure about the 50th row comment. Do you watch NBA games canuckrefguy? These guys constantly call fouls that many fans would not notice. Then you see the replay and see that there was contact on the elbow etc...

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You really shouldn't miss the ones the guy in the 50th row can see...but any official with a backbone will call a foul that deserves to be called when he sees it even if it means he is the only one to have seen it.

Originally Posted by Jay R

I think that is the key, angle. From his angle, Washington probably didn't see the foul.

That would be true - IF there was a foul. I don't think there was, or at most, there was a weak borderline one, given the NBA's physicality.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Durant was not unable to do anything he wanted to do while throwing up a fade away shot. It would only be a foul for me if he was prevented from shooting a clean shot. He was able to rise with both arms under control. Whatever contact took place was minimal or insignificant IMO.

+1

Just because Javie intimated that it could have been a foul doesn't mean that it "absolutely" was one. These guys make hundreds of these split-second decisions every year and this is one of those 55/45 ones that cause discussion and controversy.

[Raymond]

My opinion (originally posted in the baseball fanboy thread)

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have no foul b/c KD got a clean release. But I didn't like Washington's positioning, felt he should have moved to keep an angle to see in between the players. I grimace every time I see myself on film and I don't move to keep good angles.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My opinion (originally posted in the baseball fanboy thread)

Quoting yourself? Cool.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dealone

I can understand the fast motion no-call. But slow motion shows that during the initial phase (critical phase where Durant is already in shooting motion and lifting into the shot) LeBron not only touches an elevating arm, but he absolutely hooks Durant at the waist while Durant was elevating into the shot. It absolutely was a foul. But that is slow motion. Fast motion, seven seconds left (time shouldn't matter but does), I wouldn't have called a foul.

I could say that Durant hooks him if we want to get that technical. There arms do lock for a moment. But no one is prevented from any movement. Fouls are based on prevention or benefiting from some contact. Durant was not going anywhere he was trying to shoot a shot and he did exactly what he wanted to do. And if we have to slow stuff down just to find a foul, then that is dangerous as we will be guessing based on what we think might have happen. Just the fact that so many people keep making that distinction tells me I am satisfied with my opinion on this play.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Just because Javie intimated that it could have been a foul doesn't mean that it "absolutely" was one. These guys make hundreds of these split-second decisions every year and this is one of those 55/45 ones that cause discussion and controversy.

He didn't intimate....he said flat out said it was a foul. If you hit a player on the left bicep like LeBron did, while he still has the ball and is shooting it, that's a foul in the NBA 10 times out of 10. I can understand why Tom Washington missed it in real time because that was a hard play to see, but in slow motion, I'd bet the NBA would want that play called a foul every time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Quoting yourself? Cool.

"It's good to be the king" is actually my favorite all-time movie quote. If you don't believe me check out my Facebook page.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

"It's good to be the king" is actually my favorite all-time movie quote.