The Name Game (Shirley Ellis, 1964) ...

[rockyroad]

From games last Friday...

C Team (freshman) game and JV game going on at the same time in adjacent gyms. Player is playing first half of C team game and second half of JV game. So he is listed in both books.

According to BillyMac's partner, we would have to erase his name from the JV book since he is not warming up with them. And then we would have to issue a T for adding his name to the JV book in the second half.

Good luck with that.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

From games last Friday...

C Team (freshman) game and JV game going on at the same time in adjacent gyms. Player is playing first half of C team game and second half of JV game. So he is listed in both books.

According to BillyMac's partner, we would have to erase his name from the JV book since he is not warming up with them. And then we would have to issue a T for adding his name to the JV book in the second half.

Good luck with that.

Even if BillyMac's partner requeires him to be erased from the JV Book because he wasn't there for the start, you do NOT have to issue a T for adding his name back in the second half as long as his name and number were provided to the scorer prior to the 10 minute mark before the scheduled start time of the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Seriously Billy, why? As in why are you asking this question? Is this helping newer officials who are looking for real world applications of the rules? To me, all you're doing is confusing them with these questions that nobody asks but you.

An award winning middle school science teacher for thirty-plus years knows how to ask pointed questions to educate, and to elicit followup questions to make a point.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Stupid question, but sometimes extremes can clear things up that are otherwise muddled.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Maybe we should not reference IAABO tests in this forum.

Especially stupid IAABO tests with really silly interpretations.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Even if BillyMac's partner requeires him to be erased from the JV Book because he wasn't there for the start, you do NOT have to issue a T for adding his name back in the second half as long as his name and number were provided to the scorer prior to the 10 minute mark before the scheduled start time of the game.

BillyMac's partner would have the kid's name and number stricken from the team member list submitted to the scorer.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

The rules say you have to list each team member. It doesn't say you can only list team members. So it's a lower limit, not an exact requirement. There is no rule which prevents bench personnel from being listed in the scorebook ... at least all the team members, no upper limit.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... it doesn't preclude listing someone that isn't present. It doesn't even require all those that are present and in uniform to be listed (only if they play).

Originally Posted by Adam

Where does it limit, in any way, the names that may be in the book?

Like. Like. Like.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Around here, it's hit and miss with partners who want to cross out anyone not present/not in uniform.

Eastshire: You've seen this before, with multiple colleagues? So this really isn't an exercise in counting angels on the head of a pin?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

I think you're trying to hard to justify your partner's decisions here. That's admirable, but futile.

He was the referee. I just let him do his thing and argue with the coach ("I always list my entire roster. Nobody has ever asked me to erase a name before."). I felt that he was being overly officious, and I didn't even broach the subject with him after the game. I brought this to the Forum to get a definitive answer so that the next time he does this (he's done this before), I can hit him where it hurts with a citation, or two, like the posts from Eastshire, Camron Rust, and Adam (above).

For your information, I asked the same question to my local interpreter. He said more names are better than fewer names.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

He was the referee. I just let him do his thing and argue with the coach ("I always list my entire roster. Nobody has ever asked me to erase a name before."). I felt that he was being overly officious, and I didn't even broach the subject with him after the game. I brought this to the Forum to get a definitive answer so that the next tine he does this, I can hit him where it hurts with a citation, or two.

OK, so let him strike all he wants if he doesn't want a name in the book simply because that individual does not appear to be there or ready to play.

My question is, if you KNOW that name WAS in the book, or WAS submitted on the roster given before the 10 minute mark, and he had it stricken, and then that player goes to check in, are you going to let your partner assess a technical foul if he wants to?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, so let him strike all he wants if he doesn't want a name in the book simply because that individual does not appear to be there or ready to play.

My question is, if you KNOW that name WAS in the book, or WAS submitted on the roster given before the 10 minute mark, and he had it stricken, and then that player goes to check in, are you going to let your partner assess a technical foul if he wants to?

I have to let my partner assess any foul that he wishes. I have no authority to prevent him from doing so. It's in the rules that the officials cannot overrule the decisions of each other made within their purview.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

My question is, if you KNOW that name WAS in the book, or WAS submitted on the roster given before the 10 minute mark, and he had it stricken, and then that player goes to check in, are you going to let your partner assess a technical foul if he wants to?

Is this a rhetorical question?

If not, absolutely not. I'm stepping in to prevent a train wreck.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have to let my partner assess any foul that he wishes. I have no authority to prevent him from doing so. It's in the rules that the officials cannot overrule the decisions of each other made within their purview.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is this a rhetorical question?

If not, absolutely not. I'm stepping in to prevent a train wreck.

No, it was not a rhetorical question.

I'm with BillyMac on this one. I'd be hardpressed to finish a game in which my partner tried to assess a TF as presented above. And the Coach would CERTAINLY know that I thought he was getting screwed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have to let my partner assess any foul that he wishes. I have no authority to prevent him from doing so. It's in the rules that the officials cannot overrule the decisions of each other made within their purview.

True, but if I'm the one the table calls over when the name gets added, I'm going to note that it was a name originally provided prior to the 10 minute limit, and tell the book to add the name and we'll move on. If my partner comes in and insists on calling a T, that's one he'll have to answer for. I'll pull him aside and talk to him about it, reminding him that the rule only means coaches have to provide the roster, which he did. Then we'll make a united call. If that's a T, he can support that to the assigner.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have to let my partner assess any foul that he wishes. I have no authority to prevent him from doing so. It's in the rules that the officials cannot overrule the decisions of each other made within their purview.

I wouldn't overrule him, but I would certainly try to talk him of it. He's the captain, he can go down with the ship if he wants to, but I'm not going down with him.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

An award winning middle school science teacher for thirty-plus years knows how to ask pointed questions to educate, and to illicit followup questions to make a point.

sb elicit!

But a piss poor example of an English teacher