The Name Game (Shirley Ellis, 1964) ...

[BillyMac]

More names in the score book than there are players warming up due to injury, illness, etc.

Is it necessary to erase the extra names?

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

We were always taught that it was better to have more names in the book than those warming up rather than fewer names in the book than those warming up.

Tonight, my partner, the referee, insisted that the extra names be erased. He was the referee, so I just let him do his thing. I've never had anyone insist on this before. Was he right, or wrong?

[JRutledge]

I would rather have more than fewer. If something happens and a kid has to play, at least he is in the book.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would rather have more than fewer. If something happens and a kid has to play, at least he is in the book.

What if he's on the bench but not in uniform? What if he's not even at the site?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What if he's on the bench but not in uniform? What if he's not even at the site?

What does it matter? Maybe the player forgot his uniform and coach doesn't plan to use the player until the 2nd half when his mom brings it.

There is no justification for erasing names from the book. The coach can list all individuals he/she wants.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would rather have more than fewer. If something happens and a kid has to play, at least he is in the book.

Peace

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What if he's on the bench but not in uniform? What if he's not even at the site?

Who care if he/she is on the bench but not in uniform or if he/she is or is not at the site? Maybe the player is not expected to play until the second half or will not arrive at the site until half time.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post946707

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post700909

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post406783

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What if he's on the bench but not in uniform? What if he's not even at the site?

Why would I care?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why would I care?

The answer to your question depends on whether you believe my partner was right, or wrong, to erase the extra names.

Wrong? You shouldn't care.

Right? You should care because (maybe) it's a rule that may be complicated by kids on the bench in uniform that can't play (injury, illness, discipline, grades, etc.), kids not in uniform on the bench, or kids not at the site at all, maybe on their way, maybe not.

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

To me personally, the more names the better, but something made my veteran partner have those names erased tonight. I'd like to know if he was right, or wrong, and why.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

More names in the score book than there are players warming up due to injury, illness, etc.

Is it necessary to erase the extra names?

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

We were always taught that it was better to have more names in the book than those warming up rather than fewer names in the book than those warming up.

Tonight, my partner, the referee, insisted that the extra names be erased. He was the referee, so I just let him do his thing. I've never had anyone insist on this before. Was he right, or wrong?

Your partner was the definition of OOO here. This is nothing. You don't know if A45 is running late. By forcing them to erase names, you'd be creating an unfair technical foul later.

He's reading way too much into the rule.

Where is the rule that restricts who a coach may list on the roster?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Where is the rule that restricts who a coach may list on the roster?

10-1-1: A team shall not: Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team
member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10
minutes before the scheduled starting time.

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

4-34-2: Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with
a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and
statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel for
the purpose of penalizing unsporting behavior.

[Raymond]

No one I work for cares who was dressed and when, just be in the book if you do play. And I have worked college games where we've T'd for players being entered into book after the game started and for an incorrect number.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

You don't know if A45 is running late. By forcing them to erase names, you'd be creating an unfair technical foul later.

... to create an atmosphere of sporting behavior and fair play ... Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation.

[Nevadaref]

Billy, we went through this a few years ago when IAABO issued a ruling that such names could not be in the book. If I recall correctly, it stated that if the team member was not present at the start of the game, then his name could not be placed in the book at that time and would have to be added later upon his arrival creating a technical foul.

I didn't agree with it then and don't now.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Billy, we went through this a few years ago when IAABO issued a ruling that such names could not be in the book. If I recall correctly, it stated that if the team member was not present at the start of the game, then his name could not be placed in the book at that time and would have to be added later upon his arrival creating a technical foul. I didn't agree with it then and don't now.

Me too (I got the question wrong). Worst refresher exam question in IAABO history.

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005: Question 73. Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warmup, the referee counts eleven team members of team A but while checking the book team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

I know that IAABO isn't the official interpreter of NFHS rules, but is the interpretation based on existing NFHS rules, independent of IAABO, maybe not in the case above, but maybe with a injured kid not in uniform on the bench (this is the kid whose name my partner had erased)?

3-2-1: At least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time, each team
shall supply the official scorer with the name and number of each team member
and designate the five starting players. Failure to comply results in a technical foul
(see 10-1-1 Penalty).

So, who's a team member?

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The answer to your question depends on whether you believe my partner was right, or wrong, to erase the extra names.

Wrong? You shouldn't care.

Right? You should care because (maybe) it's a rule that may be complicated by kids on the bench in uniform that can't play (injury, illness, discipline, grades, etc.), kids not in uniform on the bench, or kids not at the site at all, maybe on their way, maybe not.

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

To me personally, the more names the better, but something made my veteran partner have those names erased tonight. I'd like to know if he was right, or wrong, and why.

Again, why would I care? I do not care who is or is not in the book. And I am certainly not going to tell any team they need to erase a name for any reason. I always check the book with the head coach and I never ask them to cross off names even when they know that a specific kid is going to play.

And I do not care because there is nothing in the rule that requires the people sitting on the bench to be accounted for. The only way I would even think to care is if I am working the State Finals and they want us to verify this information as they have a limit as to who can be on the bench, but that is beyond my pay grade.

Peace