Illegal substitution?

[johnsonboys03]

A1 thru A5 is on the floor. A6 is waiting at the Table. A coach calls timeout. Referee says sub your in, timeout A coach full timeout start it. On resumption of play A1 thru A5 are on the floor. Before the ball is administered the B coach says #30 (A6) isn't on the floor. What do we have?

[JeffM]

Whoever A6 went in for should be out of the game and needs to "sit a tick". A6 is not required to be in the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

A1 thru A5 is on the floor. A6 is waiting at the Table. A coach calls timeout. Referee says sub your in, timeout A coach full timeout start it. On resumption of play A1 thru A5 are on the floor. Before the ball is administered the B coach says #30 (A6) isn't on the floor. What do we have?

A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game, shall not re-enter (with rare exceptions) before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his, or her, replacement. In other words, a player who has been replaced must sit a tick of the clock, however, a player doesn't have to play a tick of the clock.

A6 was beckoned (Referee says sub your in) and therefor, became a player.

A6 doesn't have to play a tick, but the player he replaced must sit a tick.

Good luck trying to figure out who A6 replaced.

[DrPete]

A6 does not have to play at this point. Player can be subbed in, and then out again with no time off the clock. But A5 cannot return until the clock has been properly started and time run off. Any other eligible player on the bench can come in to replace A6, as long as he reported to the table before the first horn, then play on.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game, shall not re-enter (with rare exceptions) before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his, or her, replacement. In other words, a player who has been replaced must sit a tick of the clock, however, a player doesn't have to play a tick of the clock.

A6 was beckoned (Referee says sub your in) and therefor, became a player.

A6 doesn't have to play a tick, but the player he replaced must sit a tick.

Good luck trying to figure out who A6 replaced.

Can you supply rule on that. This is a big argument in our chapter meeting right now.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by DrPete

... A5 cannot return until the clock has been properly started and time run off.

Hold on partner. Where does it say that A6 replaced A5? It could have been A1, A2, A3, A4, or A5.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by DrPete

A6 does not have to play at this point. Player can be subbed in, and then out again with no time off the clock. But A5 cannot return until the clock has been properly started and time run off. Any other eligible player on the bench can come in to replace A6, as long as he reported to the table before the first horn, then play on.

So would you prevent anything by telling A5 Can not be in the game. Or is it a technical foul for an illegal player?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Can you supply rule on that.

3-3-4: A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall
not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been
started properly following his/her replacement.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

So would you prevent anything by telling A5 Can not be in the game. Or is it a technical foul for an illegal player?

Why do assume it's A5? It could have been A1, A2, A3, A4, or A5.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Can you supply rule on that. This is a big argument in our chapter meeting right now.

There isn't a rule that says A6 doesn't have to play. There doesn't need to be a rule. There also isn't a rule that says A6 must play....because it isn't required.

What is required is that a player that is replaced can't return.

Rule 3, Section 3, ART. 4 . . . A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement.

But, as has been said, if no player had yet left the game, there is no way you can tell who was supposed to have left.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Hold on partner. Where does it say that A6 replaced A5? It could have been A1, A2, A3, A4, or A5.

Lets say A5 was the replaced player

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A6 was beckoned (Referee says sub your in) and therefor, became a player.

Hold onto your horses BillyMac.

Does the substitute become a player when he's beckoned, or when he enters the court?

Does the original post state that A6 entered the court? I don't think so.

3-3-3: A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.
If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live.
A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or
after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Lets say A5 was the replaced player

Easy to say here on the Forum. Good luck trying to figure it out in a real game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

A1 thru A5 is on the floor. A6 is waiting at the Table. A coach calls timeout. Referee says sub your in, timeout A coach full timeout start it. On resumption of play A1 thru A5 are on the floor. Before the ball is administered the B coach says #30 (A6) isn't on the floor. What do we have?

An official who has no business beckoning a sub. Call the timeout, let A do what they want to do prior to the warning horn.

I'd have no problem with A1 through A5 in the game after the timeout.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Hold onto your horses BillyMac.

Does the substitute become a player when he's beckoned, or when he enters the court?

Does the original post state that A6 entered the court? I don't think so.

3-3-3: A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.
If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live.
A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or
after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

Your question is the argument. What makes it a legal entry. Because if the beckoning doesn't do it in this situation, then technically they would have to check in again before the 15 second horn. Even then if you would check in before the horn can the coach resend that sub and leave the original player in the game?