To T or not to T; that is the question?

[Dad]

Are you sure he thought there was a TO? If so, why did he think so?

I'm not seeing passing on a T for a coach running out into the middle of the floor to show excitement over a made basket. Few feet out of his box? Sure, probably. All the way to the key? Not with the information I have so far.

Varsity coach making this kind of mistake seems like incompetence. If he claimed he thought there was a TO I'd be more inclined to give him a T just for a terrible excuse. At least bend down and pretend like you're picking up something for the 'safety of the players.'

Rule: There is a coaching box for a reason.

[UNIgiantslayers]

I tend to agree with the coaching box violation T. Passing on this, to me, comes off similar to those who don't enforce the uniform rules. What are you going to do late in the game when the other coach does the same thing but says he thought there was a timeout? It's a lot easier to explain a situation to an assignor when a rule backs your decision (i.e. "I gave a T because he was outside the coach's box," as opposed to "I didn't think he was lying to me.") That's not to say that I think any less on those who are inclined to pass as I can see both sides, just giving my reasoning. Just my $.02.

[JRutledge]

I think you give a T if you had to stop play to address his situation.

We officiate mistakes and if he overreacted to something that was not given, that is really not our problem. And here is the worst part, this is likely on video and you have decide to ignore an obvious violation of the rules. Someone will have a case to complain you did not apply an obvious violation. Now if he did not interfere, that is another story all together. I would try my best not to give one, but he sounds like he gave the officials little choice.

Peace

[Adam]

I would not fault another official who made the call, and would back his or her play if it was called.

I see this as similar to the coach who comes out onto the court to get our attention to request a TO. By rule, it's a T that could be called. I just don't think it fits the intent of the rule.

Now, if the coach actually interferes in any way with the play I'd call it without hesitation.

[Rich]

If I stop play, I'm giving a technical foul.

Will I stop play in order to assess one? Maybe.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

I would not fault another official who made the call, and would back his or her play if it was called.

I see this as similar to the coach who comes out onto the court to get our attention to request a TO. By rule, it's a T that could be called. I just don't think it fits the intent of the rule.

Now, if the coach actually interferes in any way with the play I'd call it without hesitation.

If a coach comes onto the floor yelling for a TO I don't see it as being similar. It's more than likely we weren't hearing him. I could justify this to just about anyone.

In the OP's case I find it different and borderline unsportsmanlike behavior. What are you going to do when the other coach asks why you didn't give the coach a technical for running half-way onto the court to celebrate a basket?

The rule is the coach is supposed to stay in his box. The intent is to keep the coach from leaving said box. All the players didn't think there was a TO, but the coach did? This is one of those situations, for me, where reasoning doesn't hold much wait, if any.

I'm not saying it's wrong to pass on this, but I'm having a hard time rationalizing it.

[JRutledge]

Even though this is not the same situation. But we had a player in a game earlier in the year basically threw the ball at an official (it was not me). I heard about the situation the first time, I witness the second incident. The official in question never gave a T for the action. The kid was a "problem child" in many ways in this game and we never took care of him (and he gave us chances). Then to make a long story short, the AD of the particular school tried to accuse the official of doing something improper.

The lesson I learned (and the official in question learned) that we have to just apply the rules on these kinds of things and constantly giving a pass for bad behavior. If we had given this kid a T in the game, maybe we did not have deal with the accusations after the game. Oh and the "incident" is on tape too. I just think we find too many ways to ignore something obvious because we do not want to be the "story." But we do that to our own peril in many ways.

Peace

[frezer11]

I tend to agree with Adam. If this is clearly a miscommunication by the coach, I'm going to try to avoid a T (unless, of course, he does interfere with the play). I would also look at the spirit of the rule. I know this isn't a directly applicable analogy, but I liken it to the kid who takes the ball out of bounds after his team scores, but is clearly confused on the play. I'm not giving one there unless I have to, and I'm not giving one here unless I have to.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I tend to agree with Adam. If this is clearly a miscommunication by the coach, I'm going to try to avoid a T (unless, of course, he does interfere with the play). I would also look at the spirit of the rule. I know this isn't a directly applicable analogy, but I liken it to the kid who takes the ball out of bounds after his team scores, but is clearly confused on the play. I'm not giving one there unless I have to, and I'm not giving one here unless I have to.

You're going to have to if it's the second delay-of-game warning. The spirit of the rule is stay in your bloody coaching box. They didn't write the box rule for us to determine when we should and shouldn't enforce it.

There's no inadvertent whistle. No one said TO. No player thinks there is a TO. There's zero confusion for me to give this coach any room to leave the coaching box.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even though this is not the same situation. But we had a player in a game earlier in the year basically threw the ball at an official (it was not me). I heard about the situation the first time, I witness the second incident. The official in question never gave a T for the action. The kid was a "problem child" in many ways in this game and we never took care of him (and he gave us chances). Then to make a long story short, the AD of the particular school tried to accuse the official of doing something improper.

The lesson I learned (and the official in question learned) that we have to just apply the rules on these kinds of things and constantly giving a pass for bad behavior. If we had given this kid a T in the game, maybe we did not have deal with the accusations after the game. Oh and the "incident" is on tape too. I just think we find too many ways to ignore something obvious because we do not want to be the "story." But we do that to our own peril in many ways.

Peace

I don't think this scenario is very similar, and I realize you said that right off the bat, but the kid was deliberately doing something wrong in yours, and absolutely needed to get a T (And depending on how hard he threw the ball, he might even be leaving the game for good) whereas in the OP, it was clearly a mistake out of confusion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I don't think this scenario is very similar, and I realize you said that right off the bat, but the kid was deliberately doing something wrong in yours, and absolutely needed to get a T (And depending on how hard he threw the ball, he might even be leaving the game for good) whereas in the OP, it was clearly a mistake out of confusion.

I did not suggest the scenario was very similar other than if a coach does something that clearly violates rules and you allow it, they will think that behavior is OK. Then the next time they get penalized when someone is not buying their position, they cannot say, "Well the other officials let me do it...."

In the OP, I do not know many coaches just entering the court until they are supposed to like an official actually grants a timeout.

Peace