Spin move

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.

Why does it matter what he did with his "non-pivot foot." Add me to the group that does not think what is descibed here is a travel.

While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people?

I'm confused. What point are people missing? What limits are you referencing as clear?

[BillyMac]

Imagine a dribbler ending his dribble, and establishing a pivot foot. He picks up that pivot foot to pass, or to shoot, and while said pivot foot is in the air, decides to do neither. He just stands there with his nonpivot foot on the floor, and his pivot foot in the air, holding the ball. If not closely guarded, or not in the backcourt, or not in the lane, he can stand there, legally, like a statue, for up to seven minutes and fifty-nine seconds.

[frezer11]

I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet." This meets the non-basketball definition of pivot, but is confused with the basketball term "pivot foot." Seems to me this is a discussion that has been had on this forum before, I know I've had the talk with others in my area. Am I correct in assuming this is where your confusion is bainsey?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet."

Right. In other words, you can only pivot on the pivot foot, and you only get one of those.

Here's a case book citation.

NFHS 4.44.2A: Dribbler A1 catches the ball with the right foot touching the floor and then jumps off that foot an alights on both feet simultaneously... RULING: ... it is a violation if A1 pivots on either foot.

Therefore, if you pivot on a non-pivot foot, that's travelling. Where this typically applies in a spin move is that the ball handler pivots on his pivot foot, then pivots on the non-pivot foot.

[Nevadaref]

Bainsey,
I'm confused by your answer. Please state whether you believe that a player can do this or not:
============================================
Originally Posted by frezer11
I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet."
=============================================

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Bainsey,
I'm confused by your answer. Please state whether you believe that a player can do this or not:
============================================
Originally Posted by frezer11
I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet."
=============================================

That sounds to me like a pivot on a non-pivot foot, so NO.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That sounds to me like a pivot on a non-pivot foot, so NO.

Okay, you have an incorrect understanding.
There is nothing wrong with twisting or turning the non-pivot foot while the other foot remains in the air.

The definition of pivot was provided by Camron and involves stepping with the other foot while one foot is kept in contact with the floor. That would be illegal when done with the non-pivot foot as the other foot would touch the floor again by definition.

[Nevadaref]

There was a game-winning basket made in the NCAA tournament a few years ago by Georgetown's Jeff Green against Vanderbilt in this exact manner. Please do an Internet search for the video.

We had a fairly extensive thread on the play on this forum as the TV announcers initially incorrectly screamed for a travel. The NCAA announced that the move was perfectly legal.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Okay, you have an incorrect understanding.
There is nothing wrong with twisting or turning the non-pivot foot while the other foot remains in the air.

NFHS citation, please?

There was a game-winning basket made in the NCAA tournament a few years ago by Georgetown's Jeff Green against Vanderbilt in this exact manner. Please do an Internet search for the video.

If you mean the 2007 regional semi, there was travelling on that play before the initial drive was even made, but that hardly matters. What constitutes a travel in the NCAA is very different than the pockets of Roman Law we deal with in NFHS.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right. In other words, you can only pivot on the pivot foot, and you only get one of those.

Here's a case book citation.


Therefore, if you pivot on a non-pivot foot, that's travelling. Where this typically applies in a spin move is that the ball handler pivots on his pivot foot, then pivots on the non-pivot foot.

Bainsey,

A player holding the ball picks up his left foot and right stays at point of contact on floor. The right foot becomes the PIVOT FOOT.

--The definition of pivot 4-33--player holding the ball STEPS once or more than once….with the same foot while the other foot called the "pivot foot" is kept at its point of contact with the floor. A player only has ONE pivot foot. The word STEPS (verb) is to lift foot and place it down.

So when the player lifts the left foot with the right remaining on the floor, the right is the pivot foot. When the player actually puts the left foot on the floor (a step) he has PIVOTED. Now the player lifts the right foot (PIVOT FOOT) and is standing on his left foot. That left foot is NOT a pivot foot. There is only one pivot foot, the right. Also, even if it were a pivot foot, it is not a pivot until the other foot hits the floor. Twisting on one foot while the other stays in the air is not, by definition, a pivot.

In my example the left foot..is just a foot. Player standing only on that foot must pass or shoot--can jump also but can't return either foot to floor. The PLAYER LOCATION rule says player is located where he is in contact with floor. The player can spin or twist on that left foot provided he remains in contact with floor at that location. If he starts twisting his way down the court on one leg he is doing more than passing or shooting.