Coach appears to headbutt official

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

In the video I saw, he was at arms length before the coach lunged and head-butted him. I think smitty offered the most reasonable explanation for the proximity as it was. He was getting into the situation to diffuse it when the coach earned his T.

[Maineac]

Recognizing out of control people and trying to stay an arm's length away from them sounds easy enough on it's surface, but the video clearly shows what happens when an out of control person doesn't want to remain an arm's length away. It's not always up to us.

Good point though about being "right" not preventing you from getting injured. Kind of like the pedestrian in the crosswalk who is legally in the right, but still gets killed when a car runs over him.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Maineac

Recognizing out of control people and trying to stay an arm's length away from them sounds easy enough on it's surface, but the video clearly shows what happens when an out of control person doesn't want to remain an arm's length away. It's not always up to us.

Good point though about being "right" not preventing you from getting injured. Kind of like the pedestrian in the crosswalk who is legally in the right, but still gets killed when a car runs over him.

Well, the referee entered what my karate sensei calls close or elbow and knee range. This is partly because of his own movements and partly because of the coaches'. This is closer than arm's length (punching range).

If you stay more than arm's length, they have to move to punch you (and really move to head butt you) which gives you time to retreat, dodge, or block the attack (I recommend retreat). It's also a distance which is hard to cover on impulse so it should eliminate some "heat of the moment" attacks.

The moral is to stand off from upset people and move away from them when they move towards you. If this referee had started just a few inches further away, he would likely have avoided the attack. His reflexes were good. He just didn't have enough time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Well, the referee entered what my karate sensei calls close or elbow and knee range. This is partly because of his own movements and partly because of the coaches'. This is closer than arm's length (punching range).

If you stay more than arm's length, they have to move to punch you (and really move to head butt you) which gives you time to retreat, dodge, or block the attack (I recommend retreat). It's also a distance which is hard to cover on impulse so it should eliminate some "heat of the moment" attacks.

The moral is to stand off from upset people and move away from them when they move towards you. If this referee had started just a few inches further away, he would likely have avoided the attack. His reflexes were good. He just didn't have enough time.

If he'd had karate training, he would have known that.

On the other hand, the coach did have to move to hit him. He moved quite a distance, actually, pretty quickly.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

If he'd had karate training, he would have known that.

On the other hand, the coach did have to move to hit him. He moved quite a distance, actually, pretty quickly.

Right. That's my point. That's the takeaway. When someone's moving towards you aggressively, stop. Move away. Quickly, if necessary.

That didn't happen here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

So what? I don't see how this is relevant at all.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

Yep, and I stopped caring about that with the assault. I'm willing to discuss that, within reason, when a coach gets a technical foul after a missed call.

Assault and battery changes that for me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

...

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

The call could have been 100% correct and still evoked the same reaction.

Coaches' opinions of plays are quite often wrong.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Coaches' opinions of plays are quite often wrong.

Shocked I tell ya. Shocked I am!

Maybe in Hampton Roads, but not up here! Just ask em, they'll tell ya!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The call could have been 100% correct and still evoked the same reaction.

Coaches' opinions of plays are quite often wrong.

It certainly could, but we'll never know.

I've never said anything that suggests the coach has an excuse for behaving as he did. He should be charged with crime for his actions. He was way beyond a reasonable reaction to a call, whether right or wrong.

Either way, that doesn't erase the face that the call that led to it was also wrong. And most of what we work on and discuss here is getting the calls right. It can' t hurt to discuss that too and discuss the potential consequences of getting calls wrong.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It certainly could, but we'll never know.

I've never said anything that suggests the coach has an excuse for behaving as he did. He should be charged with crime for his actions.

Either way, that doesn't erase the face that the call that led to it was also wrong. And most of what we work on and discuss here is getting the calls right. It can' t hurt to discuss that too and discuss the potential consequences of getting calls wrong.

I have not seen an angle that I am satisfied with the correctness of the call. All I have seen is an angle from the other side of the court and not the angle of the calling official. I also doubt it was just that call. There was probably other things that got him upset.

If you look at a video of when Boehiem was ejected, even Jay Bilas said that JB actions were unacceptable and it was his actions that cost the game.

Peace