double foul during shot

[so cal lurker]

From game last night (as parent):

Double foul called (seemed to me like a poor choice to call a double foul, but that's beside the point) about the same time a shot is taken. I believe that the referee ruled the foul occurred before the shot was taken, and the team shooting kept the ball (I don't think the PA was flipped). (The coach was arguing the ball was in flight when the whistle blew, which is obviously not the test . . . this ref often had a slow whistle, sometimes very slow.)

If the double foul had occurred while the ball was in flight, does the basket count? If not, does it go to AP since no team control?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

From game last night (as parent):

Double foul called (seemed to me like a poor choice to call a double foul, but that's beside the point) about the same time a shot is taken. I believe that the referee ruled the foul occurred before the shot was taken, and the team shooting kept the ball (I don't think the PA was flipped). (The coach was arguing the ball was in flight when the whistle blew, which is obviously not the test . . . this ref often had a slow whistle, sometimes very slow.)

If the double foul had occurred while the ball was in flight, does the basket count? If not, does it go to AP since no team control?

Of course it would count and the POI would be a throw-in anywhere along the endline for B.

And if the double foul occurred before the try was released, the POI is quite obvious.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

From game last night (as parent):

Double foul called (seemed to me like a poor choice to call a double foul, but that's beside the point) about the same time a shot is taken. I believe that the referee ruled the foul occurred before the shot was taken, and the team shooting kept the ball (I don't think the PA was flipped). (The coach was arguing the ball was in flight when the whistle blew, which is obviously not the test . . . this ref often had a slow whistle, sometimes very slow.)

If the double foul had occurred while the ball was in flight, does the basket count? If not, does it go to AP since no team control?

It is the test under NCAAW.

Correct on both counts.

And, if it happens after the motion has started, then it's the same answer (at least by interp, here. We've had discussions on this in the past -- one rule says allow continuous motion if there's a foul by the defense; another says no CM if there's a foul by the offense; no rule specifically says what to do if both of the above are true.)

[derwil]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

From game last night (as parent):

Double foul called (seemed to me like a poor choice to call a double foul, but that's beside the point) about the same time a shot is taken. I believe that the referee ruled the foul occurred before the shot was taken, and the team shooting kept the ball (I don't think the PA was flipped). (The coach was arguing the ball was in flight when the whistle blew, which is obviously not the test . . . this ref often had a slow whistle, sometimes very slow.)

If the double foul had occurred while the ball was in flight, does the basket count? If not, does it go to AP since no team control?

One follow up point:

If the double foul happens when the ball is in the air and the shot does NOT go in, the resumption of play goes to the arrow.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by derwil

One follow up point:

If the double foul happens when the ball is in the air and the shot does NOT go in, the resumption of play goes to the arrow.

Double fouls go to the POI. An AP throw in MAY be the POI.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Double fouls go to the POI. An AP throw in MAY be the POI.

Given the parameters of his post, the POI would always be AP.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Given the parameters of his post, the POI would always be AP.

Absolutely. The thing with the OP to remember is that there can be 3 DIFFERENT outcomes.

1) DF while shooter STILL has the ball
2) DF while ball is in the air and shot is made
3) DF while ball is in the air and shot is missed

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

If the double foul had occurred while the ball was in flight, does the basket count? If not, does it go to AP since no team control?

Had this (once on a free throw!). Team A's basket counted, Team B's ball on the end line. Had it missed, we go to the arrow.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

Absolutely. The thing with the OP to remember is that there can be 3 DIFFERENT outcomes.

1) DF while shooter STILL has the ball

Assuming by "shooter" you mean that the try has started, then there is no "separate" outcome for this -- it's going to fall into one of the other two categories.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Assuming by "shooter" you mean that the try has started, then there is no "separate" outcome for this -- it's going to fall into one of the other two categories.

Not sure about that. Continuous motion only applies when there is a foul by the defense. A double foul does not meet that criteria, hence the need for this first of three scenarios.

That's my take anyway.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Assuming by "shooter" you mean that the try has started, then there is no "separate" outcome for this -- it's going to fall into one of the other two categories.

I totally disagree. There is no continuous motion for a double foul.

[Adam]

Not sure how the rule is worded, but a double foul would include a "foul by the defense." What makes continuous motion inapplicable?

Thinking further: would it be the fact that a foul by a player on the team in control causes the ball to immediately become dead?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not sure how the rule is worded, but a double foul would include a "foul by the defense." What makes continuous motion inapplicable?

Thinking further: would it be the fact that a foul by a player on the team in control causes the ball to immediately become dead?

The rule doesn't say continuous motion is applicable or inapplicable. In fact, it doesn't even mention it as being relevant. If there is still team control, that team gets the ball for a throw in. Why try to muck it up?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by billyu2

The rule doesn't say continuous motion is applicable or inapplicable. In fact, it doesn't even mention it as being relevant. If there is still team control, that team gets the ball for a throw in. Why try to muck it up?

The question was whether the shot would count. The real question (and answer) is whether the ball is live when it goes through the basket if a double foul is committed while the shooter has the ball in his hand. The answer is no, it is not, the ball becomes dead when a teammate of the player with the ball commits a foul. In the end, you're right, but it's also important to understand the rule basis for the decision.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not sure how the rule is worded, but a double foul would include a "foul by the defense." What makes continuous motion inapplicable?

Thinking further: would it be the fact that a foul by a player on the team in control causes the ball to immediately become dead?

Yes, the fact that there is a foul by the offense makes the ball dead immediately. There is no exception that delays the dead ball when that occurs.