Swinging elbow contact (video)

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't see a jump ball, and our job isn't to anticipate "what" may transpire when making a call. In games like this you could probably get away with making up a call (I don't see why you would want to do it). But in some games you would only get yourself in hot water and this video and your explanation would most likely not sit well with you assignor if it ever gets to that.

It's not making up a call. It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

She's clearly swinging around wildly with her elbows. The official made a mistake letting it go, twice.

I have a violation and I'm calling it when she violates the swinging elbows rule.

I'm not sure why we're bringing assigners into this, but any decent assigner who also assigns me my 5a/collegiate is asking me why I'm letting a player at a low level swing around wildly and waiting for someone to get hurt to blow my whistle.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

Just having the hand on the ball doesn't necessitate a jump ball. If that were the case there would be dozens of jump balls each game.

There is no jump ball.

A violation should have been called.

Any action after the violation would have been dead ball contact.

However we have a swung, waist was the pivot point, elbow to the face. Flagrant.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Just having the hand on the ball doesn't necessitate a jump ball.

I agree, but with other factors it does -- shooter. I'm not calling a jump here, but if the official isn't going to call a violation then I'm okay with a jump. Anything to stop this kind of play from continuing.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Dad

I agree, but with other factors it does -- shooter. I'm not calling a jump here, but if the official isn't going to call a violation then I'm okay with a jump. Anything to stop this kind of play from continuing.

Not the first time you've posted something from the MSU manual.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Not the first time you've posted something from the MSU manual.

How is violently swinging elbows not undue roughness?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Dad

How is violently swinging elbows not undue roughness?

Not questioning that. It's the pull a held ball out of thin air quote.

My thoughts:

Stupid unnecessary 25 second intro. Wtf.

No way that can be a held ball. I see three cleanup fouls that could have been called which probably (except for the last one) prevent the elbow. For me you get one crack at getting the ball....any more and it's a foul. Especially in girls games.

Shot clock guy is 2 seconds slow resetting on the rebound. Probably par for the HS shot clock course.

INT for me, but it's close. Haven't seen a lot of video on the difference between INT and Flagrant at the HS level, for me could depend on game/player situation.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

any decent assigner who also assigns me my 5a/collegiate is asking me why I'm letting a player at a low level swing around wildly and waiting for someone to get hurt to blow my whistle.

He won't be asking you, "why didn't you fabricate a jump ball there instead?"

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

It's not making up a call. It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

She's clearly swinging around wildly with her elbows. The official made a mistake letting it go, twice.

I have a violation and I'm calling it when she violates the swinging elbows rule.

I'm not sure why we're bringing assigners into this, but any decent assigner who also assigns me my 5a/collegiate is asking me why I'm letting a player at a low level swing around wildly and waiting for someone to get hurt to blow my whistle.

I don't think anybody is arguing the possibility of calling excessive swinging of the elbows. What's being questioned is your ability to see a held ball from this camera angle.

That travel/held ball concept is not anything I've ever heard of.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't think anybody is arguing the possibility of calling excessive swinging of the elbows. What's being questioned is your ability to see a held ball from this camera angle.

That travel/held ball concept is not anything I've ever heard of.

I'm calling a violation, but here's why I say jump ball. Looks like there's probably a hand on the ball when she starts swinging. If you're not going to call the violation then she's using undue roughness to get the ball away. Imo, calling a jump ball is better than waiting for someone to get wacked. Violation is the much better call, no question.