Swinging elbow contact (video)

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

Just having the hand on the ball doesn't necessitate a jump ball. If that were the case there would be dozens of jump balls each game.

There is no jump ball.

A violation should have been called.

Any action after the violation would have been dead ball contact.

However we have a swung, waist was the pivot point, elbow to the face. Flagrant.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Just having the hand on the ball doesn't necessitate a jump ball.

I agree, but with other factors it does -- shooter. I'm not calling a jump here, but if the official isn't going to call a violation then I'm okay with a jump. Anything to stop this kind of play from continuing.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Dad

I agree, but with other factors it does -- shooter. I'm not calling a jump here, but if the official isn't going to call a violation then I'm okay with a jump. Anything to stop this kind of play from continuing.

Not the first time you've posted something from the MSU manual.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Not the first time you've posted something from the MSU manual.

How is violently swinging elbows not undue roughness?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Dad

How is violently swinging elbows not undue roughness?

Not questioning that. It's the pull a held ball out of thin air quote.

My thoughts:

Stupid unnecessary 25 second intro. Wtf.

No way that can be a held ball. I see three cleanup fouls that could have been called which probably (except for the last one) prevent the elbow. For me you get one crack at getting the ball....any more and it's a foul. Especially in girls games.

Shot clock guy is 2 seconds slow resetting on the rebound. Probably par for the HS shot clock course.

INT for me, but it's close. Haven't seen a lot of video on the difference between INT and Flagrant at the HS level, for me could depend on game/player situation.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by AremRed

My thoughts:

Stupid unnecessary 25 second intro. Wtf.

No way that can be a held ball. I see three cleanup fouls that could have been called which probably (except for the last one) prevent the elbow. For me you get one crack at getting the ball....any more and it's a foul. Especially in girls games.

Shot clock guy is 2 seconds slow resetting on the rebound. Probably par for the HS shot clock course.

INT for me, but it's close. Haven't seen a lot of video on the difference between INT and Flagrant at the HS level, for me could depend on game/player situation.

I agree, if we get the fouls first the elbow never gets thrown, and if it does it's easy to adjudicate since it's dead ball. Pretty easy intentional for the elbow, and I wouldn't be upset if it was called flagrant.