So...is the term "extended arm bar" unclear?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Inconsistent and/or incorrect mechanics (and uniforms) seems to be the hallmark of H.S. officiating across the nation, from everything I've observed, worked with and been told to do for the past 6 or 7 years I've been working at the varsity level. Difficult to say why, but the infusion of men's and women's college officials is definitely part of the reason.

At the end of the day, though, managing a good game is the recipe for personal success even though state level evaluators and assignors may "say" they don't agree and will knock poor mechanics despite a well managed game all day long.

Since when is this an "inconsistent and/or incorrect mechanic"?

At some point most officials stop sweating the small stuff. I hit that sometime after working at the varsity level for 6-7 years.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Rich

A thumbs up from me means there's 10....cause we're not "good to go" if there are 9 or 11 on the floor.

Exactly.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Rich

Since when is this an "inconsistent and/or incorrect mechanic"?

At some point most officials stop sweating the small stuff. I hit that sometime after working at the varsity level for 6-7 years.

"Small stuff" is subjective, I suppose.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by deecee

If 2 hands up means go ahead to you and is confusing then there isn't much to say is there. It's also used since it's 3 man and you want both to show both partners, "hey hold up"

Who gives a two-handed stop signal?

The two handed signal customarily given here is done with the fingers spread, indicating 10, and is followed by a point or thumbs up. It means: I have counted the players and there are 10.

If given with fingers closed, I can see it meaning wait, but why then use both arms?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

If given with fingers closed, I can see it meaning wait, but why then use both arms?

Like I said generally with 3 man its 1 arm for each official.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by deecee

Like I said generally with 3 man its 1 arm for each official.

Honest question: Don't you just need to signal the official handling the restart? Also, why can't they see a single arm as well as two?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Honest question: Don't you just need to signal the official handling the restart? Also, why can't they see a single arm as well as two?

Just the way I was taught. Usually let the C take over the substitution process. I use it rarely. Usually just one hand up, but 2 is acceptable.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

"Small stuff" is subjective, I suppose.

It also changes for many people as time goes on.

These days it's mostly about positioning, playcalling, and game management for me -- the rest is typically "small stuff."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I disdain college level refs giving clinics/offering advice to NF audiences. They frequently mix up mechanics and confuse NF level refs. Often they will say something like "...in high school ball we do this & that but in college ball we do that & this". Wish that they would let NF level refs be the sole presenters at seminars wherein NF refs are the primary audience or wherein NF type information is to be presented. I worked a NF game with a ref who would hold up two hands with open palms and fingers spread apart at me when I was giving the ball for a throw in after a substitution. I presumed that was his way of telling me "OK, we now have 10 players in the game, go ahead and start throw-in." Later he told me that two hands up meant "stop/pause", I told him that his mechanic was confusing.

When I'm working a HS game, I'm a HS official. When I'm at an HS association meeting, I'm a HS ref. When I pregame a HS game, I talk about HS rules and HS mechanics. I despise it when a HS official makes an incorrect generalization about "college" officials.

What does having two hands up to stop play have to do with college or HS mechanics? Can you show me where in the NFHS signal chart that holding up two hands with open palms and fingers spread apart is the signal for 10 players being on the court?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Two hands up, palms facing a partner typically means "I've counted 10 on the court." where I'm from.

A single raised arm with open palm is the stop or "do not proceed yet" sign.

A point or thumbs up is the "good to go" sign.

Those are all things I see in my area from officials at every level....H.S. NAIA and NCAA.

So it has nothing to do with someone being a "college" official, as our friend from Kansas was insinuating.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Rich

It also changes for many people as time goes on.

These days it's mostly about positioning, playcalling, and game management for me -- the rest is typically "small stuff."

Agreed.

[SAJ]

I could see the use of two hands to stop play during a substitution. Typically, the T would beckon the subs and if the subsequent inbound play is administered by the L then a one handed stop sign by the T could also be interpreted as a ready to proceed (mirrored chop).

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When I'm working a HS game, I'm a HS official. When I'm at an HS association meeting, I'm a HS ref. When I pregame a HS game, I talk about HS rules and HS mechanics. I despise it when a HS official makes an incorrect generalization about "college" officials.

What does having two hands up to stop play have to do with college or HS mechanics? Can you show me where in the NFHS signal chart that holding up two hands with open palms and fingers spread apart is the signal for 10 players being on the court?

I love this attitude and approach. Just wish it was more widely held by college/h.s. crossover officials in my area. That being said, there are some talented college level officials in our area that do a fantastic job of sharing game management experiences and knowledge with our local h.s. officials. So, I'm not here bashing college officials for them being college officials. There are differences mechanically that flow downward into the h.s. ranks that the State does not like at all. Yet, on the flip side, there are some outstanding "higher level thinking" things that are also shared and discussed that make we h.s. officials better, as well.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I could see the use of two hands to stop play during a substitution. Typically, the T would beckon the subs and if the subsequent inbound play is administered by the L then a one handed stop sign by the T could also be interpreted as a ready to proceed (mirrored chop).

This is why I don't raise my arm for a mirrored chop until after the ball is at the disposal of the thrower in.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When I'm working a HS game, I'm a HS official. When I'm at an HS association meeting, I'm a HS ref. When I pregame a HS game, I talk about HS rules and HS mechanics.

If this had a "Like" option I would click on it.