Please Explain This Call (Video)

[xyrph]

Foul is called on White #4:

[Raymond]

What did the official who called it say when asked to explain? Why do you expect us to explain some other official's call? It's obvious he missed the first push by R21 that caused W4 to fall on the R25 player on the floor. It's a missed called. Officials miss calls sometimes. I see one official wearing a watch and another who appears to be 15 years-old, I would definitely expect that they would miss some calls.

Can you explain the parent who was yelling at the girl who committed the initial turnover?

[xyrph]

No, I cannot explain why people watching the game say what they say.

What an odd question, and not very helpful.

This wrong call happened literally directly in front of the ref. The only way to miss it was with eyes closed.

I can tell you what is frustrating from a parents perspective is that most refs have zero humility, and act as if they are never ever wrong. Around here they do not answer questions.

In this particular case the woman ref comes over pronouncing that this "foul" was white #4's 5th foul and the removed her from the game. Turns out it was only her fourth foul and they corrected it a few minutes later, allowing her back in after critical moment of the game had transpired.

And, all four of her "fouls" were just as obviously suspect.

[scrounge]

Well, sounds like you need to sign up for the next officiating class, xyrph. Clearly this league needs your obviously superior judgment and instincts. Don't just be a sideline youtube warrior - get in the ring, son.

Ok, the dude missed the push by R21 (though it didn't look like a massive one). I don't really have a huge problem calling fouls on players that jump on others recklessly trying to force a jump ball - that's what he saw. And so they momentarily got the # of fouls wrong - the table got it corrected, that's what they're there for.

The ref should answer questions from the coach and others actually involved in the game, if done so in a polite manner. The peanut gallery isn't in the game.

[Dad]

Is white #4 your kid? I can just smell the bias.

White #4 has an obvious block/forearm.

White #34 could've been called for a foul.

NOW we get to the actual call, where the official may have thought to himself *Well, shoot, I should've had those fouls on white but I let them go thinking she could play through it*

Few probabilities:

1) Official was looking for a reason to give it to red after swallowing his whistle. From the looks of this play and and foul count they probably let too much go. He let too much go and tried to remedy it.

2) Live, it may have looked like she was already falling and red didn't actually push her. Doesn't even look like much of a push in slow motion, though this could've easily been called offensive.

3) Watch his head, doesn't even look like he ever glances at red to replay what just happened in his head. Could've easily just missed it -- we're not perfect.

I'm not saying any of these are good excuses or the correct way to look at the play. This just isn't that big of a deal and it was a messy play. After you let the initial foul go on white #4 it was ugly.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by xyrph

No, I cannot explain why people watching the game say what they say.

What an odd question, and not very helpful.

This wrong call happened literally directly in front of the lead. The only way to miss it was with eyes closed.

I can tell you what is frustrating from a parents perspective is that most refs have zero humility, and act as if they are never ever wrong. Around here they do not answer questions.

In this particular case the woman ref comes over pronouncing that this "foul" was white #4's 5th foul and the removed her from the game. Turns out it was only her fourth foul and they corrected it a few minutes later, allowing her back in after critical moment of the game had transpired.

And, all four of her "fouls" were just as obviously suspect.

How do you know if the official answered the COACH'S question about the play?

And what is so helpful about your video? What are you or I learning from it? The official missed the called. What are you offering in the way of advise to so that another official won't get that call wrong?

And how are you going to criticize officials if you don't know the difference between a Lead and a Trail.

If frustrating a human being's perspective to for someone to post a video of an event and then ask a whole bunch of people why someone they don't know made a decision as if we are in their brain.

So again, what was the purpose of posting this video other than to make the juvenile comment about the "Lead" official having his eyes closed. Tell us again how you are being "helpful"?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by xyrph

No, I cannot explain why people watching the game say what they say.

What an odd question, and not very helpful.

This wrong call happened literally directly in front of the lead. The only way to miss it was with eyes closed.

I can tell you what is frustrating from a parents perspective is that most refs have zero humility, and act as if they are never ever wrong. Around here they do not answer questions.

In this particular case the woman ref comes over pronouncing that this "foul" was white #4's 5th foul and the removed her from the game. Turns out it was only her fourth foul and they corrected it a few minutes later, allowing her back in after critical moment of the game had transpired.

And, all four of her "fouls" were just as obviously suspect.

In my opinion, if this is true, I agree it's extremely frustrating. To top it off it's unprofessional and makes entire leagues mediocre. I do find it hard to believe that they never answer questions. All encompassing statements tend to have an issue with being not true.

As a general rule, I'll answer most questions. Personally, I will almost always tell a coach when I mucked up a call. There is, however, a lot of dynamics involved and game management is an art most officials don't have. Without it, you're not working 5A or even 4A around here. Or maybe even any varsity games for that matter. Really depends on association.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

In my opinion, if this is true, I agree it's extremely frustrating. To top it off it's unprofessional and makes entire leagues mediocre. I do find it hard to believe that they never answer questions. All encompassing statements tend to have an issue with being not true.

As a general rule, I'll answer most questions. Personally, I will almost always tell a coach when I mucked up a call. There is, however, a lot of dynamics involved and game management is an art most officials don't have. Without it, you're not working 5A or even 4A around here. Or maybe even any varsity games for that matter. Really depends on association.

I don't answer parents' questions, even those who are recording the game from the stands. We do not know if the official in question answered any questions about that call, assuming the HC even questioned it. And I have a hard time believing the 15 year-old looking official would ignore questions from a coach.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't answer parents' questions, even those who are recording the game from the stands. We do not know if the official in question answered any questions about that call, assuming the HC even questioned it. And I have a hard time believing the 15 year-old looking official would ignore questions from a coach.

My bad, I should have been more clear. I meant answering coaches' questions.

I also said "if" and meant it.

[xyrph]

Originally Posted by Dad

White #4 has an obvious block/forearm.

Thanks for your response, Dad. You at least provide some insight that is helpful.

Regarding the block/forearm can you elaborate, please? Are you referring to what happens at approx. 7 seconds into the clip?

Is a defensive player not allowed to place their arm like that? I know it is a foul if she extends the arm and pushes on the offensive player, but if it is purely defensive I thought this was ok. When I look at that portion of the clip I see the offensive player pushing #4's arm and not the other way around. I'd like to know if this is indeed a foul in this situation committed by #4?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by xyrph

... I'd like to know if this is indeed a foul in this situation committed by #4?

That question has already been answered, but your feelings were too hurt by the other statements made in this thread to pay attention.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by xyrph

No, I cannot explain why people watching the game say what they say.

...

But you expect someone here to explain why an official made a call that he made.

[xyrph]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That question has already been answered, but your feelings were too hurt by the other statements made in this thread to pay attention.

No. Not hurt. I am asking NOW about Dad's comment of the arm bar. Please respond if you have something helpful to say about that item, which has not been discussed at all, except for Dad's assertion.

[BDevil15]

Maybe he is genuinely looking for some insight. Fans are generally the most ignorant population in the gym and maybe he is just looking for some help understanding what a ref might see.

Yes I'm feeling glass half full today.

[xyrph]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

But you expect someone here to explain why an official made a call that he made.

I don't expect anything. I was hoping that a forum of officials might provide professional insight.

The comparison to fans watching a game is absurd.