Can anyone explain?

[williebfree]

What is the rationale that "victims" (the fouled player) of Player Control (PC) fouls are not awarded free throw attempts, if bonus situation is in effect?

Is there a history behind this that I am not understanding?


[Edited by williebfree on Dec 4th, 2002 at 04:47 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

I think you mean "player control" fouls. However, I agree with you. I really don't understand the logic. Why is a foul committed by someone with the ball "less offensive" and deserving of a lesser penalty than a foul by someone on that same team (NF rule)or by someone on the defensive team (taking into consideration the new NCAA rule)?

If I crash into you when you have established and maintained legal guarding position, do I hit you "softer" if I have the ball in my hands?

Let the punishment fit the crime and let's be consistent in penalties for the same actions.

[Camron Rust]

My take...

PC fouls often involve a player who is also a shooter . The no FTs/cancel the shot provision balances the penalty with the penalty of a defensive foul: allow the bucket/award FT(s). Either side has a similar amount to gain from the incident. To send the defender to the line and cancel the shot would be a double penalty. To allow the shot would not be equitable since it wasn't made fairly.

For non-PC fouls, with FTs only awarded if in the bonus, each foul provides each offended team with the same opportunity going forward.

I think the penalties are balanced to fit the larger situation rather than based on the contact alone.

That said, I could easily justify not awarding FTs on a non-PC offensive foul. These two possibilities of rules are both valid and have reasonable arguments for being equitable.

[whistleone]

My guess would be that the rules committee feels that losing the ball is punishment enough and there's no need to punish again by the awarding of free throws. The NCAA has started expanding this thinking past just player control fouls and if trends continue, I wouldn't be surprised if the NFHS follows in the next few years.

[williebfree]

Originally posted by whistleone
My guess would be that the rules committee feels that losing the ball is punishment enough and there's no need to punish again by the awarding of free throws. The NCAA has started expanding this thinking past just player control fouls and if trends continue, I wouldn't be surprised if the NFHS follows in the next few years.

This is not a valid assumption. For example, A1 dribbling on top of key (team and player control are maintained by Team A), A5 is called for a pushing foul against B5 under the basket (attempting to get rebounding position). If Team B is in the bonus, B5 is shooting FTs. However, if A1 is called for a PC, B1 is NOT shooting FTs.

Team fouls 1 - 6 are treated the same, but a disparity exists after the 6th foul.

[Edited by williebfree on Dec 5th, 2002 at 04:28 PM]

[whistleone]

NCAA Rules:
Team B is in the bonus as team A has committed 10 team fouls. A1 is dribbling the ball at the top of the key. A5 is whistled for an illegal screen on B4 near the lane. Ruling: Under last year's rules, B4 would be shooting two free throws. This year, team B doesn't shoot free throws, but gets the ball out of bounds nearest the location of the foul for a spot throw-in. Rule 10-21.3 (Team control Foul)

This is what I was referring to when I made the comment about the NCAA expanding the thinking past just player control fouls. If the foul occurs during a shot by A1, it's a different story and we're shooting two on the other end.

[williebfree]

Whistleone..

I think I understand now what you're saying about expanded thinking.. It was in the absolute reverse of my thinking.

If I understand this correctly, NCAA is looking at making all fouls committed by the offensive team non-shooting fouls?

[Edited by williebfree on Dec 5th, 2002 at 04:38 PM]

[ChuckElias]

Willie, this is a new rule change this year. Any time a player on offense commits a foul while his/her team is in control, the penalty is merely loss of possession (no FTs). It's slightly more complicated than that, but that's the gist. These are now called "Team Control Fouls".

Chuck

[williebfree]

This means there are no Bonus shots if a "team control" foul occurs?

[AK ref SE]

Chuck -
We are only talking NCAA (not HS) rule change this year!

AK ref SE

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by williebfree
This means there are no Bonus shots if a "team control" foul occurs?

That's right.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by AK ref SE
Chuck -
We are only talking NCAA (not HS) rule change this year!

To quote a wise man, "That's right".

[AK ref SE]

Chuck-

Just wanted to make sure that I was playing by the right set of rules.....As I was informed in another thread that we must play by different rules in Alaska.

AK ref SE