Can someone explain a call (NCAA)?

[SamG]

I'm speaking as a fan who admits not knowing the rules, and what the talking heads said didn't make sense either, so I figured you guys could possibly explain things (pardon me if I don't get the right terms)...

Team A has 4th down on it's own 30. They snap the ball, the punter puts his foot to it, and the ball hits A76 on ~32 who's engaged with a B player. The ball ricochets off (hits no one else), stops on the 39 and a (different) B player falls on the ball.

The WH turns on his mic and says since the ball hit A76 in the expanded neutral zone, it will be 1st & 10 for B on the 39. The talking head said if A76 had been in the neutral zone when hit by the ball, the ball would be dead right there.

So two questions...
1) What is the 'expanded neutral zone'?
2) Why is the call different based on where A76 is (obviously that's what the rule is, but is there any reasoning behind the rule)?

Thank you in advance.

[cmathews]

The expanded neutral zone is to allow mostly linemen to complete regular blocking actions and still be considered on or behind their line of scrimmage. This is important because if they are hit by a kicked ball or intentionally touch a thrown ball while not on or behind the line of scrimmage the ball becomes dead on the kicked ball and it is illegal touching potentially offensive pass interference/ and or Illegal man downfield on the pass play. Touching of a kicked ball in or behind the expanded neutral zone is ignored. If he had been another couple yards downfield in your example it would have been just like a kicking team player touching a punt 30 yds downfield it will be dead.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by cmathews

The expanded neutral zone is to allow mostly linemen to complete regular blocking actions and still be considered on or behind their line of scrimmage. This is important because if they are hit by a kicked ball or intentionally touch a thrown ball while not on or behind the line of scrimmage the ball becomes dead on the kicked ball and it is illegal touching potentially offensive pass interference/ and or Illegal man downfield on the pass play. Touching of a kicked ball in or behind the expanded neutral zone is ignored. If he had been another couple yards downfield in your example it would have been just like a kicking team player touching a punt 30 yds downfield it will be dead.

A merely touching a punt doesn't kill it.

Essentially what the original post is saying is that the touching by A is ignored because it was in the expanded neutral zone. Touching by either team in the ENZ is ignored.

Had A76 touched it beyond the ENZ, it would have been illegal touching, but that in itself wouldn't have killed the play. B would've had the option (with some exceptions which I won't bother with here) to take the result of the play or take the ball at the spot of illegal touching.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SamG

The talking head said if A76 had been in the neutral zone when hit by the ball, the ball would be dead right there.

TH didn't know what he was talking about.

[Texas Aggie]

I'm not sure where you guys are getting this stuff for NCAA rules. If you are correct about it, please provide rules references. Otherwise...

There is no defined "expanded" neutral zone for NCAA rules. On scrimmage kicks, the idea of an expanded neutral zone exists for the blocking of a kick by Team B -- if its done within 3 yards of the neutral zone, its considered to have been done in or behind the NZ. This is important because Team A can recover the kick that has not crossed the NZ and the ball continues in play. Other than this, touching by Team A of a kick beyond the NZ is a violation that, under most but not all circumstances, allows Team B to take the ball at the spot of the touching.

Touching by Team A behind the NZ means nothing. Its where the ball goes after that.

This is all in Rule 6-3.

The expanded neutral zone is to allow mostly linemen to complete regular blocking actions and still be considered on or behind their line of scrimmage. This is important because if they are hit by a kicked ball or intentionally touch a thrown ball while not on or behind the line of scrimmage the ball becomes dead on the kicked ball and it is illegal touching potentially offensive pass interference/ and or Illegal man downfield on the pass play. Touching of a kicked ball in or behind the expanded neutral zone is ignored. If he had been another couple yards downfield in your example it would have been just like a kicking team player touching a punt 30 yds downfield it will be dead.

I don't think there is one statement in this paragraph that's actually correct. Just FYI: ANY intentional touching by an ineligible receiver of a forward pass, whether the touching occurs behind or beyond the NZ, is illegal, unless he's out of bounds.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by Adam

TH didn't know what he was talking about.

THAT much I knew. That's why I asked here.

So, what I now understand... if a punt is touched by another player on the kicking team ON or BEHIND the NZ, kicking team can still try to advance the ball, or receiving team can recover the ball and the subsequent spot goes on where the ball is downed.

If the kicking team touches the ball BEYOND the NZ, the receiving team has the option of accepting the ball where it was touched.

The 'Extended Neutral Zone' is a 'buffer area' (for lack of a better term) that allows the kicking team's lineman (and presumably on non-kicks too) to continue their blocks and still be considered in the NZ.

Yes, I probably oversimplified, but I don't know how often this will come up for me.

Thanks guys!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I'm not sure where you guys are getting this stuff for NCAA rules. If you are correct about it, please provide rules references. Otherwise...

There is no defined "expanded" neutral zone for NCAA rules. On scrimmage kicks, the idea of an expanded neutral zone exists for the blocking of a kick by Team B -- if its done within 3 yards of the neutral zone, its considered to have been done in or behind the NZ. This is important because Team A can recover the kick that has not crossed the NZ and the ball continues in play. Other than this, touching by Team A of a kick beyond the NZ is a violation that, under most but not all circumstances, allows Team B to take the ball at the spot of the touching.

Touching by Team A behind the NZ means nothing. Its where the ball goes after that.

This is all in Rule 6-3.



I don't think there is one statement in this paragraph that's actually correct. Just FYI: ANY intentional touching by an ineligible receiver of a forward pass, whether the touching occurs behind or beyond the NZ, is illegal, unless he's out of bounds.

I was just sloppy, and therefore, wrong. It's the neutral zone or behind for A touching a kick -- you're absolutely correct. The ENZ applies to B blocking a scrimmage kick only. And obviously when considering ineligibles downfield on a pass play.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was just sloppy, and therefore, wrong. It's the neutral zone or behind for A touching a kick -- you're absolutely correct. The ENZ applies to B blocking a scrimmage kick only. And obviously when considering ineligibles downfield on a pass play.

So did the officials "kick" this one? Or is there a distinction in this case between A76's being touched by, and A76's touching, the ball? Or a "forced touching" provision that applies to team A?

[Texas Aggie]

The 'Extended Neutral Zone' is a 'buffer area' (for lack of a better term) that allows the kicking team's lineman (and presumably on non-kicks too) to continue their blocks and still be considered in the NZ.

Please cite the rule reference for this.