Rolling under the play.

[crosscountry55]

"Rolling under" is just another term for "opening low." I always do this. You get a great angle between the players on a potential drive, and all you have to do is follow it in while the L is covering the secondary defenders.

I respectfully disagree with Camron about moving up toward the division line. How many times does something of consequence happen up there as compared to the semi circle and below? Why would I want to take myself in the opposite direction from where the basketball is going? Why would I want to observe plays from farther away? And as for getting beat going the other way....an acceptable risk considering there are ways (the button hook, for example) to get good temporary angles while you're transitioning to new lead. And not every transition is a fast break; getting beat is an unfounded fear 85% of the time.

In summary, I love the OHSAA effort to move toward "rolling under." Watched the Marquette/AZ St. game this evening and saw all of the officials doing it. I think JD is advocating it. Three officials in your TV picture will be more common this year and that's why.

On another note, I have NOT seen consensus yet on how to stand as the lead (parallel, modified, or 45). Three camps, three different emphases. Guess ya just gotta do it the way your assigner wants. Wish we could get a more universal opinion on this.


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Heard from an NBA guy the other night that they have done studies on the number of correct whistles/no calls from Trail either 1) being closer to the division line and stepping onto the court to see the matchup or 2) hugging the sideline and getting below the matchup. He said their call percentage was significantly better from hugging the sideline and getting below the matchup. Take that for what it's worth.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Heard from an NBA guy the other night that they have done studies on the number of correct whistles/no calls from Trail either 1) being closer to the division line and stepping onto the court to see the matchup or 2) hugging the sideline and getting below the matchup. He said their call percentage was significantly better from hugging the sideline and getting below the matchup. Take that for what it's worth.

If this had a "Like" button I would click on it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Heard from an NBA guy the other night that they have done studies on the number of correct whistles/no calls from Trail either 1) being closer to the division line and stepping onto the court to see the matchup or 2) hugging the sideline and getting below the matchup. He said their call percentage was significantly better from hugging the sideline and getting below the matchup. Take that for what it's worth.

If that is the rationale , I would be fine with it. But it wasn't expressed that way. Tipton didn't like goings under so he might not been inclined to mention that.

The other thing that was brought up was the L bounce the ball to the throw in on anything on the sideline bow the FTE and the T keeping the count.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The other thing that was brought up was the L bounce the ball to the throw in on anything on the sideline bow the FTE and the T keeping the count.

This mechanic makes things easier for sure but doesn't really lead to more correct calls. If the Trail can't bounce the ball to the thrower in the corner and get his butt to the 28' line to referee the play then he probably shouldn't be doing varsity ball. I wouldn't concern yourself with this one as much as other positioning things.

You keep bringing up "John Tipton", is that somebody we should all know??

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

This mechanic makes things easier for sure but doesn't really lead to more correct calls. If the Trail can't bounce the ball to the thrower in the corner and get his butt to the 28' line to referee the play then he probably shouldn't be doing varsity ball. I wouldn't concern yourself with this one as much as other positioning things.
...

No one should be calling college basketball then, b/c that's the mechanic.

Why should the Trail have to go down there to administer the throw-in when the Lead is 3 feet away? So, yes, maybe it's just to make things simpler. Has nothing to do with whether or not a person should have to hustle back to the 28' line.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No one should be calling college basketball then, b/c that's the mechanic.

Why should the Trail have to go down there to administer the throw-in when the Lead is 3 feet away? So, yes, maybe it's just to make things simpler. Has nothing to do with whether or not a person should have to hustle back to the 28' line.

I wasn't addressing college mechanics, pretty sure the 'OHSAA' in the OP is a high school association. I'm well aware of the college and NBA mechanics and their "makes things easier" benefit, my point was that mechanic does not lead to more correct calls and thus is not as important as other mechanics tweaks.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I wasn't addressing college mechanics, pretty sure the 'OHSAA' in the OP is a high school association. I'm well aware of the college and NBA mechanics and their "makes things easier" benefit, my point was that mechanic does not lead to more correct calls and thus is not as important as other mechanics tweaks.

Was the OHSAA's reasoning for changing the mechanic "to get more correct calls"?

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by AremRed

This mechanic makes things easier for sure but doesn't really lead to more correct calls. If the Trail can't bounce the ball to the thrower in the corner and get his butt to the 28' line to referee the play then he probably shouldn't be doing varsity ball. I wouldn't concern yourself with this one as much as other positioning things.

You keep bringing up "John Tipton", is that somebody we should all know??

I don't know what his footprint is, I was asked who my source was and thats the guy. He was putting everything in the context of the playoff assignments .

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I don't know what his footprint is, I was asked who my source was and thats the guy. He was putting everything in the context of the playoff assignments .

So it seems like Ohio is not 100% NFHS mechanics.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I don't know what his footprint is, I was asked who my source was and thats the guy. He was putting everything in the context of the playoff assignments .

Gotcha. We too have administrators here that are overly concerned with stupid mechanics stuff instead of "getting the play right". It's pretty sad.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by AremRed

...more correct calls...

NFHS mechanics:
Lead bouncing the ball across the corner to administer a throw-in is...
...allowed for two-person ("The throw-in is administered by the official responsible for the boundary line.")...
...but not for three-person ("In the frontcourt, the throw-in is administered by the official responsible for the boundary line.")
Simple enough.
But let's not, for the sake of a mechanic either cherished or detested, overlook one significant thing: It's a legitimate PCA issue more than anything. I.e., after distributing the ball to the thrower, what kind of surveillance is the administering official providing?
New officials, particularly, are -- I think due to an engrained habit picked up by the legitimate two-person mechanic -- inclined to focus on the player defending the thrower and the thrower him/herself to the detriment of low post play. Lead's focus on the torsos and the elbows of players in his primary away from the throw-in goes lacking. This is the problem seen also with many Lead officials doing three-person who bounce the ball across the corner. Rather than pass the surveillance of the thrower and defender there off to the Trail and turning attention inward, his/her need for avid attention on the jostling going on in his/her primary down low is ignored.
This is observed time and time and time again with new officials. Enough that it's just a lot easier maintaining the correct three-person mechanic stated above and teach the Lead to look inside during the throw-in, unencumbered by the perceived need or lingering habit to look at the throw-in outside his/her primary.
Good officials at Trail can easily perform this prescribed mechanic and they are observed doing so regularly without incident. There's really no good reason, other than personal preference and perhaps expediency, to vary from the mechanic, if that's what you're asked to follow.
Is this a legitimate point?

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

If that is the rationale , I would be fine with it. But it wasn't expressed that way. Tipton didn't like goings under so he might not been inclined to mention that.

The other thing that was brought up was the L bounce the ball to the throw in on anything on the sideline bow the FTE and the T keeping the count.

I have never heard that....quite the contrary, every clinic I've been to (including Jim Berry's) says the L only handles throw-ins on the end line, that the T would handle the situation in the above case. Are you sure you heard it right? Maybe that's just John's opinion but it's not OHSAA's.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I have never heard that....quite the contrary, every clinic I've been to (including Jim Berry's) says the L only handles throw-ins on the end line, that the T would handle the situation in the above case. Are you sure you heard it right? Maybe that's just John's opinion but it's not OHSAA's.

I heard right. Whether he was couching his opinion it as OHSAA 's stance or not, it's hard to say. If he's wrong, there probably will be a lynch mob if some guys get ripped for those mechanics.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

...

On another note, I have NOT seen consensus yet on how to stand as the lead (parallel, modified, or 45). Three camps, three different emphases. Guess ya just gotta do it the way your assigner wants. Wish we could get a more universal opinion on this.


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NBA officials have the best positioning, so I like to do what they do. They are always at an angle.