Held ball during AP throw in

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


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How are they punished? Did someone take 30 lashes?

For the record, I advocate for switching the arrow when it's handed to the thrower, but I'm such a minority on that I have come to accept it will never happen.

[SNIPERBBB]

Has this case book play changed, I seem to remember a different ruling several years ago?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Has this case book play changed, I seem to remember a different ruling several years ago?

I don't think it has changed.

[SNIPERBBB]

Im thinking it might of been before the change to the AP throw-in rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Has this case book play changed, I seem to remember a different ruling several years ago?

In Iowa, before the two governing bodies started working towards making their rules the same, the Girls' Union had a modification that changed the arrow on an AP throw in as soon as the ball was handed to the thrower. I don't know if other states had such modifications at one time, but as far as I'm aware the NFHS has never been different.

[frezer11]

There is actually a third scenario that ends the throw in, and it directly relates to this. If instead of tying the ball up, the team B player simply pulls the ball away from the offense, then he has gained possession and the throw in has subsequent ended. The ball was not thrown in bounds, nor did the offense violate.

A related question, can the thrower in reach the ball across the in bound plane, and hand the ball off to a teammate just over the line? My immediate thought is no, and I think I could probably support that with the rules, but why is a defender allowed to grab the ball in that same scenario legally and play on? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both teams here?

[BlueDevilRef]

I'm still saying from all points of my view, referee/fan/former player, this is just silly. Very poor interpretation of throw in ending. I understand the rule and if it ever happened will adjudicate correctly but still think it is silly that the same team would keep getting the ball back no matter how many times it occurred. Nothing said here thus far has changed the fact the defense is getting kinda screwed on this play.


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[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I'm still saying from all points of my view, referee/fan/former player, this is just silly. Very poor interpretation of throw in ending. I understand the rule and if it ever happened will adjudicate correctly but still think it is silly that the same team would keep getting the ball back no matter how many times it occurred. Nothing said here thus far has changed the fact the defense is getting kinda screwed on this play.


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Good thing you said the underlined part above, because when you start thinking like the bolded part, you become more of a fan than an official and you start to make calls based on what seems fair, not what the rules call for.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Nothing said here thus far has changed the fact the defense is getting kinda screwed on this play.

How? They didn't make a good enough play to take the ball so why should they be awarded the ball?

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

How? They didn't make a good enough play to take the ball so why should they be awarded the ball?

Isn't that almost always the case in a held ball? The ball is held by both parties, correct?? So neither of them have full possession??? In this exact case of the OP, not the other stuff that has been mentioned, I don't agree that it should keep being an AP throw in. I know my opinion on the rules matters not when I'm calling but this, to me, does not pass the smell test. To me, a held ball should be that, period, and go to arrow, regardless of when/where/why the play started.

I will say that I hope I don't ever have this in a game but given this convo, I'll be well informed to make the right call as that is really all that matters.


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[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I'm still saying from all points of my view, referee/fan/former player, this is just silly. Very poor interpretation of throw in ending. I understand the rule and if it ever happened will adjudicate correctly but still think it is silly that the same team would keep getting the ball back no matter how many times it occurred. Nothing said here thus far has changed the fact the defense is getting kinda screwed on this play.

NCAA tried a rule that defense gets the ball on a held ball (implemented following a NCAA Tournament game that essentially ended on a possession arrow returning the ball to the offense with only seconds left) on the idea that the defense played good defense. (Kinda like the change from jump ball to turn over on closely guarded.)

It was a mess and I believe only lasted one season.

[BryanV21]

So we should reward the defender for grabbing a ball that was basically handed to him by the inbounder?

Or is it because the defender knows the rule, in which case we should also let defenders use their feet to block passes because they know that it's a kicking violation, and we should reward them for knowing the rule.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

So we should reward the defender for grabbing a ball that was basically handed to him by the inbounder?

Or is it because the defender knows the rule, in which case we should also let defenders use their feet to block passes because they know that it's a kicking violation, and we should reward them for knowing the rule.

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What does it matter either way? As long as we know the rules and can explain them quickly when questioned.

Your second paragraph leaves me confused.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What does it matter either way? As long as we know the rules and can explain them quickly when questioned.

Your second paragraph leaves me confused.

I was responding to the idea that the rule is not fair to the defense.

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[BlueDevilRef]

I'm not saying defense should get the ball every time. I'm saying when a held ball occurs, we should go to the arrow for next possession. As in the OP, the ball would go to defense. I am simply saying held ball should be a held ball, regardless of how ball was coming into play


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