Held ball during AP throw in

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I'm not saying defense should get the ball every time. I'm saying when a held ball occurs, we should go to the arrow for next possession.

It already does. That is the point. It keeps going to the arrow, which remains with the throwing team until the throwin is released such that it touches a player inbounds (or the throwing team violates).

And it can't change until that time because there might be a foul (far more likely than repeat held balls) and they don't want a team to lose the arrow if they're fouled (or if they foul) before the throwin is complete.

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

As in the OP, the ball would go to defense. I am simply saying held ball should be a held ball, regardless of how ball was coming into play


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[BlueDevilRef]

Cameron and OkRef, thanks. All this convo has clarified the situation for me. Now, here's to it not happening any in my games!


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[Adam]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


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How are they punished? Did someone take 30 lashes?

For the record, I advocate for switching the arrow when it's handed to the thrower, but I'm such a minority on that I have come to accept it will never happen.

[SNIPERBBB]

Has this case book play changed, I seem to remember a different ruling several years ago?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Has this case book play changed, I seem to remember a different ruling several years ago?

I don't think it has changed.

[SNIPERBBB]

Im thinking it might of been before the change to the AP throw-in rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Has this case book play changed, I seem to remember a different ruling several years ago?

In Iowa, before the two governing bodies started working towards making their rules the same, the Girls' Union had a modification that changed the arrow on an AP throw in as soon as the ball was handed to the thrower. I don't know if other states had such modifications at one time, but as far as I'm aware the NFHS has never been different.

[frezer11]

There is actually a third scenario that ends the throw in, and it directly relates to this. If instead of tying the ball up, the team B player simply pulls the ball away from the offense, then he has gained possession and the throw in has subsequent ended. The ball was not thrown in bounds, nor did the offense violate.

A related question, can the thrower in reach the ball across the in bound plane, and hand the ball off to a teammate just over the line? My immediate thought is no, and I think I could probably support that with the rules, but why is a defender allowed to grab the ball in that same scenario legally and play on? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both teams here?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by frezer11

There is actually a third scenario that ends the throw in, and it directly relates to this. If instead of tying the ball up, the team B player simply pulls the ball away from the offense, then he has gained possession and the throw in has subsequent ended. The ball was not thrown in bounds, nor did the offense violate.

A related question, can the thrower in reach the ball across the in bound plane, and hand the ball off to a teammate just over the line? My immediate thought is no, and I think I could probably support that with the rules, but why is a defender allowed to grab the ball in that same scenario legally and play on? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both teams here?

Do you have rules or caseplay that support the part in red?

Where in the rules is the bold supported? We only have support for a held ball, there is none for a "steal".

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by deecee

do you have rules or caseplay that support the part in red?

Where in the rules is the bold supported? We only have support for a held ball, there is none for a "steal".

7.6.4 situation a

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by deecee

Do you have rules or caseplay that support the part in red?

Where in the rules is the bold supported? We only have support for a held ball, there is none for a "steal".

7.6.4:A
While attempting a throw in A1 holds the ball through the plane of the end line. B1 (a) slaps the ball from A1's hand(s); or (b) simply grabs the ball and then throws it through B's basket.

Ruling: In (a), no violation has occurred and play continues. In (b), score two points for B.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by OKREF

7.6.4:A
While attempting a throw in A1 holds the ball through the plane of the end line. B1 (a) slaps the ball from A1's hand(s); or (b) simply grabs the ball and then throws it through B's basket.

Ruling: In (a), no violation has occurred and play continues. In (b), score two points for B.

I wanted freezer to find that, mostly because he would then look further and figure out the answer to his second question regarding teammates and handoffs.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by deecee

I wanted freezer to find that, mostly because he would then look further and figure out the answer to his second question regarding teammates and handoffs.

I already knew the case play ruling, which is why I brought the original question up in the first place. But again I ask, is it legal to hand the ball off, such that both the player in bounds and the player out of bounds are both touching the ball at the same time? The case book ruling for a defender makes me say it's legal, but I want to see if anyone has a different ruling they can find that would disagree with that, as it's one of those things that doesn't seem to pass the eye test, so I want to have proper justification.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I already knew the case play ruling, which is why I brought the original question up in the first place. But again I ask, is it legal to hand the ball off, such that both the player in bounds and the player out of bounds are both touching the ball at the same time? The case book ruling for a defender makes me say it's legal, but I want to see if anyone has a different ruling they can find that would disagree with that, as it's one of those things that doesn't seem to pass the eye test, so I want to have proper justification.

7-6-2
The throw-in begins when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to the throw in. The thrower shall release the ball on a pass directly into the court, except as in 7-5-7, within 5 seconds after the throw in begins.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by OKREF

7.6.4:A
While attempting a throw in A1 holds the ball through the plane of the end line. B1 (a) slaps the ball from A1's hand(s); or (b) simply grabs the ball and then throws it through B's basket.

Ruling: In (a), no violation has occurred and play continues. In (b), score two points for B.

Note however that if B makes contact with A in this situation, it's an intentional foul (by rule)