In-bound pass that goes into the basket

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Inadvertent whistle. The throwin ended when the passed ball touched, or was legally touched, by another player inbounds. No team control (no team foul involved). Go to the arrow.

When does TC start? When does TC end? Does the throw-in ending have anything to do with TC?

(or, am I asking these questions to lead you down the proverbial garden path?)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

When does TC start? When does TC end? Does the throw-in ending have anything to do with TC?

(or, am I asking these questions to lead you down the proverbial garden path?)

I was trying to lead him down the primrose path myself.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

When does TC start? When does TC end? Does the throw-in ending have anything to do with TC?

1) When the ball is at disposal of the inbounding player for a throw-in.

2) When the throwin ends (when the passed ball touched, or was legally touched, by another player inbounds).

3) Yes. Team control ended when the throwin ended, when the throwin pass was deflected, by a player in bounds, at A’s free-throw line.

Point: Team control on a throwin is only for the purposes of a team control foul during a throwin. There was no foul in the casebook play, so team control ended when the throwin ended, when the throwin pass was deflected (touched, or was legally touched) by a player in bounds, at A’s free-throw line.

Confucius says: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

Just give me the damn fish.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) When the ball is at disposal of the inbounding player for a throw-in.

2) When the throwin ends (when the passed ball touched, or was legally touched, by another player inbounds).

3) Yes. Team control ended when the throwin ended, when the throwin pass was deflected, by a player in bounds, at A’s free-throw line.

Point: Team control on a throwin is only for the purposes of a team control foul during a throwin. There was no foul in the casebook play, so team control ended when the throwin ended, when the throwin pass was deflected (touched, or was legally touched) by a player in bounds, at A’s free-throw line.

Confucius says: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

Just give me the damn fish.

You are right. we don't know who gets the ball because we don't know who had the arrow. It will be an AP throw in nearest the location of the ball. case plays for POI when no team in control say nearest location of ball.

Team control during a throw in says it lasts until the ball is secured. However, as you pointed out, the sole purpose for this rule--stated when it came out--is to avoid shooting free throws when the throw in team commits a foul during the throw in or after it ends but before a team possesses the ball. For any other situations the regular team control rules apply.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You are right. we don't know who gets the ball because we don't know who had the arrow. It will be an AP throw in nearest the location of the ball. case plays for POI when no team in control say nearest location of ball.

Nearest location of ball?

7.5.3 SITUATION: An official sounds his/her whistle inadvertently: (c) while A1's unsuccessful three-point try attempt is in flight; RULING: The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. In (c), since there is no team control when the ball becomes dead, the ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure at a spot
nearest to where A1 was last in contact with ball when the whistle was sounded.

A throwin at the spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred, is only for when there is team control when the interruption occurred. There was no team control when the interruption occurred in this situation.

It looks like the alternating possession throwin should be at the closest spot to where the throwin pass was deflected at A’s free-throw line.




Do I still get a prize?

Hasn't this become a great thread?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nearest location of ball?

7.5.3 SITUATION: An official sounds his/her whistle inadvertently: (c) while A1's unsuccessful three-point try attempt is in flight; RULING: The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. In (c), since there is no team control when the ball becomes dead, the ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure at a spot
nearest to where A1 was last in contact with ball when the whistle was sounded.

It looks like the alternating possession throwin should be at the closest spot to where the throwin pass was deflected at A’s free-throw line.



Do I still get a prize?

Hasn't this become a great thread?

i agree about your ball location. I will give you a fish. We'll see what Nevada says.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

We'll see what Nevada says.

Don't forget Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., and bob jenkiins.

Basketball rules are tough. There has got to be an easier sport to officiate.

Croquet, Mark Padgett?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Don't forget Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., and bob jenkiins.

Basketball rules are tough. There has got to be an easier sport to officiate.

Croquet, Mark Padgett?

Actually, from what my friends tell me, football rules are the ultimate in complexity. I am sure that Jeff and Tony can weigh in on that.

But the easiest is futbol, I mean soccer. I officiated H.S. soccer from 1993 to 2005, and nothing infuriated those sports officials who only officiate soccer, was my position that I could take any competent H.S. basketball official and make him a competent H.S. soccer official in less than one H.S. soccer season. But the reverse was not true for soccer officials.

MTD, Sr.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) When the ball is at disposal of the inbounding player for a throw-in.

2) When the throwin ends (when the passed ball touched, or was legally touched, by another player inbounds).

3) Yes. Team control ended when the throwin ended, when the throwin pass was deflected, by a player in bounds, at A’s free-throw line.

Point: Team control on a throwin is only for the purposes of a team control foul during a throwin. There was no foul in the casebook play, so team control ended when the throwin ended, when the throwin pass was deflected (touched, or was legally touched) by a player in bounds, at A’s free-throw line.

Confucius says: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

Just give me the damn fish.

I'm going to take half of the fish back. your number 2 above is off. Team control for throw in purposes MAY not end when the throw in ends. If the ball is deflected the throw in is over but if the throw in team fouls before the ball is secured it is still a team control foul. It is a fiction created for the sole purpose to avoid shooting Fts when the throw in team fouls before throw in ends or possession secured. Your answer is right in the end but i am taking off for this slight error….

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Your answer is right in the end but i am taking off for this slight error….

Did you teach high school chemistry back in 1970?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Did you teach high school chemistry back in 1970?

took naps..in kindergarten...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2) When the throwin ends (when the passed ball touched, or was legally touched, by another player inbounds).

Read 4-12-3 and 4-12-4. Do they apply?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Read 4-12-3 and 4-12-4. Do they apply?

4-12: ART. 3 Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
ART. 4 While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of
the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.

Even in a throwin situation where the concept of team control is only necessary for the charging of a team control foul during the throwin?

So, if inbounder A1 has a throwin, passes it onto the court, where it's batted, tipped, and tapped, around, pinball style, by players from both teams, none of whom gains player control, and during which no foul by Team A was charged, then did Team A still maintain team control during that entire sequence of events, even when the throwin ended when it was touched by a player inbounds? So, if Team A fouled during end of this pinball situation, would it still be considered a team control foul, even though the throwin ended?

It seems to me that team control on a throwin, was given, by definition, to the throwin team when the NFHS decided that a foul by Team A during said throwin would be a team control foul with no free throws, and that team control during a throwin was not relevant to other situations, for example, backcourt.

Comments On The 2011-12 Revisions:

TEAM CONTROL DURING A THROW-IN (4-12-1, 2, 6): Several definitions were
changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the
thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul
penalties will be administered. By changing the definition of player and team control
to include a throw-in, greater consistency in penalty administration for a
common foul is achieved. Under the previous rule, because there was no team
control during a throw-in, the penalty for a common foul committed by the throw
in team after the throw-in had begun resulted in free throws if the offended team
was in the bonus, which was inconsistent with the penalty for a team-control foul
in non-throw-in situations. The rules change will result in greater consistency in
penalty enforcement and expedite the contest by eliminating the delay inherent
with administering free throws.

Hey. I've been known to be wrong before, probably more than once, or twice.

Help me to understand.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-12: ART. 3 Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
ART. 4 While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of
the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.

Even in a throwin situation where the concept of team control is only necessary for the charging of a team control foul during the throwin?

So, if inbounder A1 has a throwin, passes it onto the court, where it's batted, tipped, and tapped, around, pinball style, by players from both teams, none of whom gains player control, and during which no foul by Team A was charged, then did Team A still maintain team control during that entire sequence of events, even when the throwin ended when it was touched by a player inbounds? So, if Team A fouled during end of this pinball situation, would it still be considered a team control foul, even though the throwin ended?

It seems to me that team control on a throwin, was given, by definition, to the throwin team when the NFHS decided that a foul by Team A during said throwin would be a team control foul with no free throws, and that team control during a throwin was not relevant to other situations, for example, backcourt.

Comments On The 2011-12 Revisions:

TEAM CONTROL DURING A THROW-IN (4-12-1, 2, 6): Several definitions were
changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the
thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul
penalties will be administered. By changing the definition of player and team control
to include a throw-in, greater consistency in penalty administration for a
common foul is achieved. Under the previous rule, because there was no team
control during a throw-in, the penalty for a common foul committed by the throw
in team after the throw-in had begun resulted in free throws if the offended team
was in the bonus, which was inconsistent with the penalty for a team-control foul
in non-throw-in situations. The rules change will result in greater consistency in
penalty enforcement and expedite the contest by eliminating the delay inherent
with administering free throws.

Hey. I've been known to be wrong before, probably more than once, or twice.

Help me to understand.

Look at 4-19-7. "a team control foul is…(including a member of the throw in team from the start of the throw in until PC is obtained inbounds)."

also, the 2014/15 poe mentions that its ONLY purpose is to deal with fouls by throw in team.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

4-19-7 ... a team control foul is…(including a member of the throw in team from the start of the throw in until PC is obtained inbounds)...

Nice citation. So while that hot potato ball is pin balling around (how about that for a mixed metaphor) a team control foul can be charged until player control is established?

Originally Posted by BigCat

the 2014/15 poe mentions that its ONLY purpose is to deal with fouls by throw in team.

So for purposes other than a team control foul, team control ended when the throw in ended, that is, when the ball was touched by the player at the free throw line?

Two questions marks. Am I on the right track.