NCAA women's back court error

[Sharpshooternes]

A.R. 223 With 30 seconds on the shot clock A throws the ball in and it is touched by A2 in the backcourt. The clock runs down and B1 knocks the ball out of bounds, now with 17 seconds on the shot clock. All 3 officials have missed a 10 second backcourt violation. This case play says that the out ob bounds violation by B must be penalized. My question is how long does team A have in the backcourt after the throw in? Is it an immediate violation when A touches the ball in the backcourt prior to the ball obtaining front court status?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

A.R. 223 With 30 seconds on the shot clock A throws the ball in and it is touched by A2 in the backcourt. The clock runs down and B1 knocks the ball out of bounds, now with 17 seconds on the shot clock. All 3 officials have missed a 10 second backcourt violation. This case play says that the out ob bounds violation by B must be penalized. My question is how long does team A have in the backcourt after the throw in? Is it an immediate violation when A touches the ball in the backcourt prior to the ball obtaining front court status?

I'll give you the answer once you finish the exam

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I'll give you the answer once you finish the exam

Ha!

For a hint, sharpshooter can read through the "ask Jon" answers.

(Was this on the test? I can't recall.)

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Ha!

For a hint, sharpshooter can read through the "ask Jon" answers.

(Was this on the test? I can't recall.)

Yep. Question 34 if I remember correctly.

[Nevadaref]

Once it is pointed out that the shot clock is at 17, the right thing to do is to penalize the 10-second violation, if that is now a rule.

This demonstrates how long it's been since I officiated an NCAAW game. When did NCAAW institute the 10-second backcourt count?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

When did NCAAW institute the 10-second backcourt count?

2013-14 season.

[Sharpshooternes]

I still haven't been able to come up with a definitive answer. Can someone help a brother out?


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[bob jenkins]

This was posted by Jon on 9/22 (although the "heading" in the Ask Jon correctly indicates a later question of 9/24):

QUESTION:

If Team A is dribbling in their backcourt with 30 seconds on the shot clock and the defense causes the ball to go out of bounds with 18 seconds on the shot clock and no one on the crew calls a backcourt violation, under last year's interpretation it is too late to call a backcourt violation and the inbounding team gets a new 10-second backcourt count if the throw-in goes into the backcourt. Assuming the same interpretation and situation this year, and the offensive team does not call a timeout to buy themselves a new 10-second backcourt count, I assume that if the offense throws the inbounds pass directly into the f/c, there is no violation, but if they throw the inbounds pass into the b/c, we would call an immediate b/c violation. Please confirm.

ANSWER:


There has been no change to the approved ruling that the unobserved violation may not be called when the ball is out of bounds and the crew recognizes that there is 18 seconds remaining on the shot clock (A.R. 223). Because it is too late to penalize the 10-second violation, if Team A’s throw-in is made into their backcourt, they will receive a new ten seconds to advance the ball into their frontcourt. Team A would not be required to call a timeout in order to receive a new ten seconds.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This was posted by Jon on 9/22 (although the "heading" in the Ask Jon correctly indicates a later question of 9/24):

QUESTION:

If Team A is dribbling in their backcourt with 30 seconds on the shot clock and the defense causes the ball to go out of bounds with 18 seconds on the shot clock and no one on the crew calls a backcourt violation, under last year's interpretation it is too late to call a backcourt violation and the inbounding team gets a new 10-second backcourt count if the throw-in goes into the backcourt. Assuming the same interpretation and situation this year, and the offensive team does not call a timeout to buy themselves a new 10-second backcourt count, I assume that if the offense throws the inbounds pass directly into the f/c, there is no violation, but if they throw the inbounds pass into the b/c, we would call an immediate b/c violation. Please confirm.

ANSWER:


There has been no change to the approved ruling that the unobserved violation may not be called when the ball is out of bounds and the crew recognizes that there is 18 seconds remaining on the shot clock (A.R. 223). Because it is too late to penalize the 10-second violation, if Team A’s throw-in is made into their backcourt, they will receive a new ten seconds to advance the ball into their frontcourt. Team A would not be required to call a timeout in order to receive a new ten seconds.

That's idiotic. Not only does the defensive team get screwed by the first missed violation, but the rules person is saying to award the offensive team another full ten seconds in the backcourt!

What's wrong with acknowledging the violation two seconds late?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's idiotic. Not only does the defensive team get screwed by the first missed violation, but the rules person is saying to award the offensive team another full ten seconds in the backcourt!

What's wrong with acknowledging the violation two seconds late?

The logic is that's it's just like any other violation we miss. If you realize you miss a travel you don't go back 3 seconds later and penalize the offense for it. This is the same thing (according to the SRE)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The logic is that's it's just like any other violation we miss. If you realize you miss a travel you don't go back 3 seconds later and penalize the offense for it. This is the same thing (according to the SRE)

However, timing violations are different from court violations.
This situation is very unlike a missed travel or other judgment call by an official. Here we have a clock with numbers on it for everyone to see.
If the three officials fail to whistle the 10-second violation and the coaches start screaming at 18 seconds and an official then catches on at 16 seconds, he could certainly make this violation call with the ball still live. So I'm going to disagree that it is too late to call a clock violation just because the ball became dead by going OOB.

Someone else can check the rulings for these, but I ask:
1. When is it too late to correct a timing error pertaining to the shot clock? Must it be done during that shot clock period?

My feeling is that if a timing error can be fixed during a shot clock period (before those 30 seconds expire), then an erroneous 10-second situation should be able to be fixed as well within that same timeframe.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

However, timing violations are different from court violations.
This situation is very unlike a missed travel or other judgment call by an official. Here we have a clock with numbers on it for everyone to see.
If the three officials fail to whistle the 10-second violation and the coaches start screaming at 18 seconds and an official then catches on at 16 seconds, he could certainly make this violation call with the ball still live. So I'm going to disagree that it is too late to call a clock violation just because the ball became dead by going OOB.

Someone else can check the rulings for these, but I ask:
1. When is it too late to correct a timing error pertaining to the shot clock? Must it be done during that shot clock period?

My feeling is that if a timing error can be fixed during a shot clock period (before those 30 seconds expire), then an erroneous 10-second situation should be able to be fixed as well within that same timeframe.

Hey, I'm just telling you what the SRE has told us. If you disagree, take it up with him

At any rate, you can only correct a timing error related to the shot clock during the shot-clock period in which it occurred. However, assuming the shot clock started properly, this isn't a timing error. It's an "official didn't notice how much time was on the shot clock" error.

[Raymond]

On the Men's side it's a 10 second violation.

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