Continuous Motion/Traveling

[JRutledge]

I am still going to use the term. And it is just a point of demarcation. It does not mean it is an absolute or that other things cannot be done. But if it looks like a shot, it is a shot. If it looks like a pass or something else, it is a pass. The bottom line is that people wave off too many shots because they did not leave the floor. I am going to continue to encourage people to use the "gather" as a marking line to the call. Your experience will help out the rest.

Peace

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am still going to use the term. And it is just a point of demarcation. It does not mean it is an absolute or that other things cannot be done. But if it looks like a shot, it is a shot. If it looks like a pass or something else, it is a pass. The bottom line is that people wave off too many shots because they did not leave the floor. I am going to continue to encourage people to use the "gather" as a marking line to the call. Your experience will help out the rest.

Peace

We use the term "gathering" as well. But is "gathering" the equivalent of "end of dribble?" If so, why don't we just use "end of dribble" as the point of demarcation. Or, is there a difference between the two that has not been explained to us by NFHS?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by billyu2

We use the term "gathering" as well. But is "gathering" the equivalent of "end of dribble?" If so, why don't we just use "end of dribble" as the point of demarcation. Or, is there a difference between the two that has not been explained to us by NFHS?

The term is more descriptive. If you say "end of dribble" people might consider a point before the gather as just that, the end of the dribble. Heck we have people that cannot even agree on when a pivot foot is established when we call or review a traveling play. So the gather is a little more clear as to when that part starts. The NCAA uses "upward motion" but even that can be associated with the gather as usually you have to gather a ball while on your way up to shoot a basketball. Honestly, it is mostly about he execution of the individual, but that is why we get paid the big bucks to make these decisions.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by billyu2

We use the term "gathering" as well. But is "gathering" the equivalent of "end of dribble?" If so, why don't we just use "end of dribble" as the point of demarcation. Or, is there a difference between the two that has not been explained to us by NFHS?

It will not be explained to you by the NFHS because there is no such word in the NFHS terminology.

That said, the way people often use it is not exactly the same as "end of dribble". Many use it such that it refers to a point that is typically after the end of the dribble...when the ball is secured in two hands....and declare that only at that time is the player actually holding the ball.

However, there are a few holes in the way it is often used when you try to reconcile it with the rules.


Player control , as everyone knows, is defined only as holding or dribbling the ball.

Rule 4-12 ART. 1 . . . A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball.

Therefore, unless the player loses control of the ball, the player is, by definition, is either holding the ball or dribbling the ball.

Rule 4-15-4
The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

Thus, when the dribble ends and player control isn't lost a player is, by definition, holding the ball. Causing it to come to rest in one or both hands is essentially defined to be catching/holding the ball.


If you don't believe that, just answer this (ignoring a fumble/muff)....

If a player has ended the dribble but has not yet "gathered" the ball, what is the status of player control? Does player control continue through the time between the end of the dribble to the time the player has "gathered" the ball?


If the dribble has ended and they are not holding the ball, then you are saying they don't have player control and they are not subject to the rules regarding player control. That implies the player's team can not be granted a timeout and they they can't commit a PC foul. Has you ever seen a player in such a case commit a foul and it not be a PC foul or ever consider the status of the ball that is being gathered relative to a timeout request? Of course not.


Unless the NFHS wants to introduce third state of player control, that is all there is and the rest of the rules apply accordingly.

The term can, however, be useful in determining whether the player is in the act of shooting. It is a status, even if unofficial, that usually demarcates the latest point at which the act of shooting likely begins.

[billyu2]

Could it be said then that "gathering" means the player not only has secured control of the ball but also has gathered his movement/momentum in a way that an official should be able to accurately judge him/her to be in the act of shooting?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Could it be said then that "gathering" means the player not only has secured control of the ball but also has gathered his movement/momentum in a way that an official should be able to accurately judge him/her to be in the act of shooting?

Players IMO usually do not shoot the ball or start the shooting motion without both hands on the ball at some point. Even on a layup usually starts with both hands on the ball after a dribble. Maybe not every single time, but most of the time for sure.

Peace