Count the basket?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I believe the throw in would be at the spot nearest the foul. This could be the endline (and the thrower could run), but it isn't always.

Of course it's the off-season and I could be a bit rusty on my rules--someone will correct me I'm sure if this is wrong.

7.5.7 E

if the ball goes in/basket counts (and B is not in the bonus) their ensuing throw in is from the end line and they can run. even if the foul by the team A teammate is at the top of key. thx

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BigCat

7.5.7 E

if the ball goes in/basket counts (and B is not in the bonus) their ensuing throw in is from the end line and they can run. even if the foul by the team A teammate is at the top of key. thx

That is not correct. The proper procedure is to inbound the ball at the spot of the foul. In this case it could be the endline but it doesn't have to be. The inbounds location for ANY common foul IS spot closest to the foul.

IF the ensuing throw in is on the endline then the team has permission to run the endline due to the exception granted on fouls/violations by the defending team on endline throw ins after a made basket.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

That is not correct. The proper procedure is to inbound the ball at the spot of the foul. In this case it could be the endline but it doesn't have to be. The inbounds location for ANY common foul IS spot closest to the foul.

IF the ensuing throw in is on the endline then the team has permission to run the endline due to the exception granted on fouls/violations by the defending team on endline throw ins after a made basket.

i just remembered the case play and it says if teammate fouls after ball in flight and it goes in, throw in is on end line and team can run. it doesnt say the closest spot to teammates foul is end line. i dont like to assume facts in the plays that arent given but i dont feel to strongly about it either way.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i just remembered the case play and it says if teammate fouls after ball in flight and it goes in, throw in is on end line and team can run. it doesnt say the closest spot to teammates foul is end line. i dont like to assume facts in the plays that arent given but i dont feel to strongly about it either way.

Don't overthink this. The inbounds for ANY common foul is nearest where the foul occured. It could be in a double foul situation where the POI is a ball in flight then on a made basket the inbounds would be endline where the team can run.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Don't overthink this. The inbounds for ANY common foul is nearest where the foul occured. It could be in a double foul situation where the POI is a ball in flight then on a made basket the inbounds would be endline where the team can run.

Actually for a DPF with a try in flight the location of the POI throw-in would be from where the shooter released the try for goal as BALL location determines the throw-in spot on a DPF, while PLAYER location is the determining factor for a single personal foul.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Actually for a DPF with a try in flight the location of the POI throw-in would be from where the shooter released the try for goal as BALL location determines the throw-in spot on a DPF, while PLAYER location is the determining factor for a single personal foul.

when we have a try in flight we have no team control. if the ball goes in it goes to other team for end line throw in as deecee mentioned. that is the obvious poi. if it is missed we go to the arrow as no obvious poi. throw in at ball location at time of double foul which would be where shooter let it go as you mentioned.thx

Originally Posted by BigCat

thx

You're....welcome?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

when we have a try in flight we have no team control. if the ball goes in it goes to other team for end line throw in as deecee mentioned. that is the obvious poi. if it is missed we go to the arrow as no obvious poi. throw in at ball location at time of double foul which would be where shooter let it go as you mentioned.thx

That is correct in terms of the ultimate outcome. I would only quibble a bit with the precision of your thinking process which got you there.

Namely under NFHS rules POI is NOT any particular point in the game. Some people think of it that way, but that is not correct and can get you into administrative trouble. POI is actually an administrative process for resuming the game with a throw-in based upon the certain circumstances under which play was halted. See the definition in Rule 4. As you certainly know, it does not apply for situations in which only a single foul is committed. Also you have noted rule 4-36-2a will not be used when there is a DPF while a try is in flight as there is no team control. Therefore, the made FG situation will come under 4-36-2b (Team B due an end line throw-in) and the missed FG try activates 4-36-2c (AP throw-in at ball location).

This is really a nice scenario to test an official's understanding of team control, ball location, player location, proper throw-in location, live/dead ball, and the POI process.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

7.5.7 E... if the ball goes in/basket counts (and B is not in the bonus) their ensuing throw in is from the end line and they can run. even if the foul by the team A teammate is at the top of key.

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3
fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point field goal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3
fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point field goal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

interesting, my 7.5.7E does not say "near bottom block area." mine doesnt mention a location.

my Ipad version. i will check the paper back...if i can find them....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

interesting, my 7.5.7E does not say "near bottom block area." mine doesnt mention a location.

my Ipad version. i will check the paper back...if i can find them....

This case is there for the purposes of demonstrating that a player still gets to run the endline after a made basket even if a occurred while the ball was in flight IF the spot happens to be on the endline. It is not there to specifiy the location of the throwin.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

This case is there for the purposes of demonstrating that a player still gets to run the endline after a made basket even if a occurred while the ball was in flight IF the spot happens to be on the endline. It is not there to specifiy the location of the throwin.

If you get time, run through the rules/case plays analysis that gets you to the point to say that the reason they are running the end line in 7.5.7E is because there was a made basket AND the spot of the foul happen to be on the end line. thx

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If you get time, run through the rules/case plays analysis that gets you to the point to say that the reason they are running the end line in 7.5.7E is because there was a made basket AND the spot of the foul happen to be on the end line. thx

The case play specifies the spot of the foul was the lower block. Which would mean the inbounds would be on the endline. You have to look at your chart for where the foul occurs and the relation to where we inbounds the ball. The simplest diagram is start at a point at the top of the three point arc and draw a straight line to each of the 2 intersecting points of the three point line to the endline.

Any foul under the line inbounds is on the endline. Above = sideline.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

The case play specifies the spot of the foul was the lower block. Which would mean the inbounds would be on the endline. You have to look at your chart for where the foul occurs and the relation to where we inbounds the ball. The simplest diagram is start at a point at the top of the three point arc and draw a straight line to each of the 2 intersecting points of the three point line to the endline.

Any foul under the line inbounds is on the endline. Above = sideline.

7.5.7E used to say the foul was near the block. It does not now. It simply says A3 commits a foul on B3. nothing more.

As far as where you take the ball inbounds..it is the inside area of the key and then a point from the "elbow" (where lane lines and FT line meet) to the dead corner. looks like a spaceship. anywhere within that area goes end line.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If you get time, run through the rules/case plays analysis that gets you to the point to say that the reason they are running the end line in 7.5.7E is because there was a made basket AND the spot of the foul happen to be on the end line. thx

I think this pretty much covers it...

ART. 7 . . . A throw-in anywhere along the end line after a goal ....... shall make a throw-in from the end of the court where the goal was made and from any point outside the end line and the officials shall signal such.
b. A team retains this privilege if the scoring team commits a violation or common foul (before the throw-in ends and before the bonus is in effect) and the ensuing throw-in spot would have been on the end line.

The foul in question did happen before the throwin ended. It also effectively happened "after" the shot. The spot, if it happens to be on the endline, then allows the thrower to move.