Bush League but it almost happened last night

[egj13]

Varsity baseball...5th inning runners at 1st and 2nd, coach makes visit to the mound and replaces pitcher. 3rd base coach calls runners over for a conference during the warm-up pitches. When the warm-ups are completed, runners return to 2nd and 3rd. Plate puts the ball in play and the defensive coach comes screaming out of the dugout that the players were on 1st and 2nd prior to the trip to the mound.

Time is called, crew discusses and runners are returned to 1st and 2nd. So question is this...what is the call if the pitch is (for arguments sake) made, and hit for a double with the runners on 2nd and 3rd scoring before anyone realizes that they went to the wrong bases?

[JR12]

Sounds like a couple ejections are in order.

[DG]

Yes, two umpires who are clueless.

[bob jenkins]

I'm pretty sure there was a case play / interp several (or many) years ago where R1 and R2 switched places after the conference.

the ruling was that R1 was out for passing a runner, R2 was out fro running the bases in reverse and the coach was ejected.

I'd look for a similar situation here.

If I missed it during the game (hah!), I'd have an ejection, and a report. I'd hope the state would call it a forfeit, and add a suspension.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm pretty sure there was a case play / interp several (or many) years ago where R1 and R2 switched places after the conference.

the ruling was that R1 was out for passing a runner, R2 was out fro running the bases in reverse and the coach was ejected.

I don't think there was an actual official interpretation to that end, and if there was, I find it incongruous with the rules. If you go with the whole "passing a runner" BS, then you have to call BR out every time he hits a foul fly ball and rounds first and R1.

My solution is toss the relevant offenders, put their subs where they should go, and play.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by Matt

My solution is toss the relevant offenders, put their subs where they should go, and play.

By relevant offenders, I would think that includes the HC. Hard to believe he did not play a part in this.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Matt

. If you go with the whole "passing a runner" BS, then you have to call BR out every time he hits a foul fly ball and rounds first and R1.

Nope. The batter only becomes a runner when he hits a FAIR ball. He's not a runner in this case so he can't be guilty of passing.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JJ

You don't? Wow.

JJ

You do? Ouch.

When does the batter become a batter-runner?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm pretty sure there was a case play / interp several (or many) years ago where R1 and R2 switched places after the conference.

the ruling was that R1 was out for passing a runner, R2 was out fro running the bases in reverse and the coach was ejected.

I'd look for a similar situation here.

If I missed it during the game (hah!), I'd have an ejection, and a report. I'd hope the state would call it a forfeit, and add a suspension.

FWIW, there's an actual case play on this in FED Softball:

8.6.4 SITUATION D: With R1 at second base, R2 at first base and a 1-1 count on B3, the offensive coach requests time to speak with the runners and batter. When the players return to their bases, R1 and R2 have switched places. After the next pitch to B3, the defensive coach asks for time and informs the umpire that the runners have occupied the wrong bases. RULING: Both players are guilty of base running infractions. The umpire shall rule both R1 and R2 out for their actions. If, in the umpire's judgment, the act was deliberate, both players and the coach could be ejected for unsporting behavior. (8-3-6; 10-2-3f)

So "over there", it doesn't matter that a pitch had been delivered. It's still an infraction that the umpires can address. I suppose that if the batter had put the ball in play, the two guilty runners would still be called out, and the ejections would be warranted.

Not sure why there isn't a similar case play on the baseball side. Maybe it was in there at one point.

[bob jenkins]

From a previous thread on this subject:

From my 2008 BRD section 427:

After a time out where all runners huddled, the umpire discovers that R1 switched places wit R2. Both runners are out - R2 for running the bases in reverse order; R1 for passing a preceding runner [Website, 2003, #3]

Now if we can only find the 2003 interps (I'm sure I have them at home)

[CT1]

Score one run, place runners on 2nd & 3rd. Eject defensive HC. Circle the wagons.

OR

Place runners on 1st & 2nd & replay. Eject offensive HC. Circle the wagons.

[MD Longhorn]

I can't see any case play letting you do ANYTHING here after a pitch is thrown. Then again, if the umpires were clueless enough to let this happen - they likely have no idea either A) where the runners were with the pitch was hit for a double or B) where they should have been before that pitch.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by CT1

Score one run, place runners on 2nd & 3rd. Eject defensive HC. Circle the wagons.

OR

Place runners on 1st & 2nd & replay. Eject offensive HC. Circle the wagons.

I would go with option 2 here. I can't see awarding the offense for their actions. But, I wouldn't eject the HC if he wasn't the 3rd base coach.

Wanna triple play? What if it was a caught fly ball and runners tag. 1 out on the catch, 2 more outs for not properly tagging up?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

I would go with option 2 here. I can't see awarding the offense for their actions. But, I wouldn't eject the HC if he wasn't the 3rd base coach.

Wanna triple play? What if it was a caught fly ball and runners tag. 1 out on the catch, 2 more outs for not properly tagging up?

I know (well, think...) you're being funny here ... but what tagging up rule did they violate? Reading the actual rule, I don't believe you can call them out for that on this play.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I know (well, think...) you're being funny here ... but what tagging up rule did they violate? Reading the actual rule, I don't believe you can call them out for that on this play.

I was referring to the OP. The question was posed if there was a double hit with runners on the wrong bases, assuming with direct knowledge, what should be done?

I was playing devils advocate in responding to scoring any runs. If we allow runs to score on a base hit, then we should allow outs to count as well.

They tagged up at the wrong bases