WS obstruction

[grunewar]

Any thoughts on the very public interview/press conference with the umps after the game? Will this get to be the norm where officials need to publically explain/justify themselves? Basketball? Football?

[Spence]

Had Middlebrooks not raised his legs would it have been OBS if the runner tripped over him?

Does the fact that he took off for him "inside" the baseline play into this at all?

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by Spence

Had Middlebrooks not raised his legs would it have been OBS if the runner tripped over him?

Does the fact that he took off for him "inside" the baseline play into this at all?

Neither matters, contact is not required, had the runner not tripped it still would have been obs. The baseline is established by the runner, not some imaginary line, foul line, grass etc. Simply the route the runner chooses to take.

The only times a baseline matters pertain to a tag attempt and the running lane to 1B, other wise, runners can run wherever they wish.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Spence

Had Middlebrooks not raised his legs would it have been OBS if the runner tripped over him?

Does the fact that he took off for him "inside" the baseline play into this at all?

The raising of the legs was irrelevant as stated by Joyce. The fielder needs to get out of the way after he has clearly not making a play while laying on the ground. The rule covers this very situation almost word for word.

Peace

[Spence]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The raising of the legs was irrelevant as stated by Joyce. The fielder needs to get out of the way after he has clearly not making a play while laying on the ground. The rule covers this very situation almost word for word.

Peace

For the record, I'm not a fan of either team . I just like to understand rules.

Let me play devil's advocate.

Middlebrooks dove toward 2nd base ie in the baseline between 2nd and 3rd. If the runner hadn't run from "inside" 3rd base there would not have been contact. So what was Middlebrooks supposed to do? He was not in the baseline between 3rd and home.

It seems like no matter what he did it was going to be OBS.

[aceholleran]

It's still OBS. Runner has every right to be progress unimpeded when a play is not being made on him.

Now, august group, what happens if Craig dusts himself off and stays at third? Is there an award?

[kylejt]

He's got to make an attempt toward home, to get consideration for an award. So, if an umpire decides there was any possibility that the runner could have scored without the OBS, they'll make that award when the play on that runner is over.

But, since this was the game ending run, they could have killed the play, and made that award right away.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by kylejt

He's got to make an attempt toward home, to get consideration for an award. So, if an umpire decides there was any possibility that the runner could have scored without the OBS, they'll make that award when the play on that runner is over.

But, since this was the game ending run, they could have killed the play, and made that award right away.

This was clearly Type B, you do not kill the play and award.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by kylejt

He's got to make an attempt toward home, to get consideration for an award. So, if an umpire decides there was any possibility that the runner could have scored without the OBS, they'll make that award when the play on that runner is over.

But, since this was the game ending run, they could have killed the play, and made that award right away.

I disagree. In most cases, he would have to make an attempt to get the award but, that should not be an absolute.

I had a runner get knocked unconscious by the lumbering 1B on an apparent triple. The CF and RF were shallow and he ripped it to the wall in Right Center and was quite speedy. The kid did not make an attempt to do anything other than hold his head, puke and pass out. He was awarded third.

Joe in Florida

[Illini_Ref]

This is irrelevent to last night because there was no appeal. However, at what point does Allen Craig have to touch the awarded base (HP)?

How much time is he given to do so? What if the catcher had stepped on the plate and appealed that AC didn't touch the plate?

Consider this: A1 hits a HR over the RF wall. As he touches first and rounds the base, he and the first-basement get into an altercation and both are ejected. Does the HR stand or is the BR also called out for not touching all the bases? Does his sub get to/have to finish touching the awarded bases?

That's alot of questions!!! Sorry. I know Rutledge isn't busy anyway. Get to answering.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

This is irrelevent to last night because there was no appeal. However, at what point does Allen Craig have to touch the awarded base (HP)?

How much time is he given to do so? What if the catcher had stepped on the plate and appealed that AC didn't touch the plate?

Consider this: A1 hits a HR over the RF wall. As he touches first and rounds the base, he and the first-basement get into an altercation and both are ejected. Does the HR stand or is the BR also called out for not touching all the bases? Does his sub get to/have to finish touching the awarded bases?

That's alot of questions!!! Sorry. I know Rutledge isn't busy anyway. Get to answering.

LOL!!! I do go to church on Sunday.

My understanding at all levels is that when you call obstruction, you give them protection for at least one base. Now I believe OBR has some different kinds of obstruction so that might be the case here, but in NCAA and NF, Craig would have gotten home either way if he made and attempt to go home and their was obstruction called. It is possible I am not correct about that fact as I have backed away from baseball in the past few years, but that is the way it was when I was working regularly.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Spence

For the record, I'm not a fan of either team . I just like to understand rules.

Let me play devil's advocate.

Middlebrooks dove toward 2nd base ie in the baseline between 2nd and 3rd. If the runner hadn't run from "inside" 3rd base there would not have been contact. So what was Middlebrooks supposed to do? He was not in the baseline between 3rd and home.

It seems like no matter what he did it was going to be OBS.

Part of OBR 2.00 (Def) for OBS states "For example: an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner."

This key wording here is "continues". That is purely a judgmental call whether the fielder in this case continued to lie on the ground however, he did lie on the ground. And the rule DOES NOT discuss intent.

Your right, just about anything that Middlebrook did to get out of the way when the runner was going over him would not have helped. But, Dems the rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Any thoughts on the very public interview/press conference with the umps after the game? Will this get to be the norm where officials need to publically explain/justify themselves? Basketball? Football?

I will not say never at this point, but I doubt seriously that this is something that will happen in other sports. Baseball has very few calls other then the HP umpire that makes multple calls on multiple pitches. Other sports have more calls that influence their games as a crew. I doubt that the pros would want to have officials talking about the multiple plays they rule on in a game. This might have been the only tough call Joyce will make in that game or the only tough call he will have the entire series. I just do not see it for those sports. But baseball seems to feel this is a good idea for some reason. Thank God for their sake it was a rather easy call and easy rule to explain. Other sports have other issues to consider when quoting their rules and might raise more issues with an ignorant media asking silly questions as they did last night.

Peace

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will not say never at this point, but I doubt seriously that this is something that will happen in other sports. Baseball has very few calls other then the HP umpire that makes multple calls on multiple pitches. Other sports have more calls that influence their games as a crew. I doubt that the pros would want to have officials talking about the multiple plays they rule on in a game. This might have been the only tough call Joyce will make in that game or the only tough call he will have the entire series. I just do not see it for those sports. But baseball seems to feel this is a good idea for some reason. Thank God for their sake it was a rather easy call and easy rule to explain. Other sports have other issues to consider when quoting their rules and might raise more issues with an ignorant media asking silly questions as they did last night.

Peace

Thanks JRut. You bring up several good points. Guess only time will tell which way this goes.

[Illini_Ref]

I was also wondering, as it appears kylejt is, why the dead-ball signal wasn't given. Since the runner was obstructed while a play was being made on him, shouldn't have JJ killed the play according to 7.06(a)?