CWS game 2 starting pitcher windup?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by umpjim

This is a prospect video but did the same thing in the game:

NICK VANDER TUIG PROSPECT VIDEO, RHP, UCLA - YouTube

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, .

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, .

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

What would you say it was under NCAA:

"a. The Windup. The pitcher shall stand facing (shoulders squared to) the batter,
with the pivot foot on or in front of and touching the pitcher’s plate. The
pitcher’s entire free foot shall not be in front of the pivot foot."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by umpjim

What would you say it was under NCAA:

"a. The Windup. The pitcher shall stand facing (shoulders squared to) the batter,
with the pivot foot on or in front of and touching the pitcher’s plate. The
pitcher’s entire free foot shall not be in front of the pivot foot."

UmpJim:

I do not doubt for a minute that under NCAA Rules that it is an Illegal Pitch/Balk, but Junior and I only umpire under NFHS rules except for the Roy Hobbs League (MLB/AL Rules) games that we do in the summer so when it comes to the college boys we leave that to the big dogs at the college level. I do download a copy of the NCAA Baseball Rules every year just to have a copy on file if I want to research something but that is far as it goes.

Still love the Jimi Hendrix in the background of the video though, .

MTD, Sr.

[Rich Ives]

Just because there are no runners doesn't mean the pitcher has to or is using windup.

Looks to me like they consider him in set, not windup, and all his shrug/step stuff is part of his natural motion that commits him to pitch. If so, it is legal.

As no one has called it on him all year, I'd go with the "deemed legal" thought.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Just because there are no runners doesn't mean the pitcher has to or is using windup.

Looks to me like they consider him in set, not windup, and all his shrug/step stuff is part of his natural motion that commits him to pitch. If so, it is legal.

As no one has called it on him all year, I'd go with the "deemed legal" thought.

That's a windup. He has a different set. Since your not complaining coach I don't have a problem with it. If you were complaining (which apparently hasn't happened in this players career) I'd tell you that you and I can tell the difference between his windup and set. Before FED wrapped itself around the axle about windup foot position we never enforced their rule as no one complained and you could always tell if a pitcher was in the windup or set by other clues. The NCAA verbiage is problematic though.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

That's a windup. He has a different set. Since your not complaining coach I don't have a problem with it. If you were complaining (which apparently hasn't happened in this players career) I'd tell you that you and I can tell the difference between his windup and set. Before FED wrapped itself around the axle about windup foot position we never enforced their rule as no one complained and you could always tell if a pitcher was in the windup or set by other clues. The NCAA verbiage is problematic though.

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

Interesting rationalization. Works for me. Can I use it in FED?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Interesting rationalization. Works for me. Can I use it in FED?

You could use that rationalization in FED, but this stance would be illegal in FED, as it's not a set by their rules.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

It's not a set position.

It's a windup with the feet in the wrong position, a hybrid stance as defined by the NFHS.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not a set position.

It's a windup with the feet in the wrong position, a hybrid stance as defined by the NFHS.

Can you direct me to that in the NCAA rulebook?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, .

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

Unless you live in an area where nobody calls it.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rich

Unless you live in an area where nobody calls it.

Rich:

It is called in Ohio H.S. baseball games. I called it myself twice on a particular varsity pitcher in the same at bat.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Junior and I discussed this at the beginning of the H.S. here in Ohio and Michigan. We both agree that the NFHS got it correct for the wrong reason.

The NFHS POE concerned itself with the position of the Pivot Foot instead of concerning itself with the position of the Non-Pivot Foot. How the Pivot Foot is in contact with the Pitcher's Plate (PP) should not determine whether the F1 has engaged the PP in the Wind-up of the Stretch/Set position, but the position of the Non-Pivot Foot should be the determining factor as to whether the F1 has engaged the PP in the Wind-up of the Stretch/Set position.

Just our humble opinion. As MTD, Jr., would say: Peace! Out!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Still love the Jimi Hendrix in the playing in the background of the video, .