CWS game 2 starting pitcher windup?

[umpjim]

Does not appear to be legal by NCAA rules. But, I think FED and NCAA should go with the MLBUM description of the windup so I have no problem with it. I just wish both would change their verbiage.

Edited to add: He double sets also but who cares. He sets at the bottom.

[bob jenkins]

Picture or video? Why was it illegal?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Picture or video? Why was it illegal?

Picture a RH Cliff Lee.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Picture a RH Cliff Lee.

So you're asking us to envision something and then determine if it's legal or not?

I don't think any of us can help with your question without a picture or (preferably) video.

[Rich Ives]

So he made all the way to the CWS final game using an illegal windup and no one called it?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So he made all the way to the CWS final game using an illegal windup and no one called it?

What, nobody watched the CWS. I have a picture off my DVR. How do I get it in a post. But let me ask is Cliff Lee's windup a legal NCAA windup?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

So you're asking us to envision something and then determine if it's legal or not?

I don't think any of us can help with your question without a picture or (preferably) video.

This is a prospect video but did the same thing in the game:

NICK VANDER TUIG PROSPECT VIDEO, RHP, UCLA - YouTube

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by umpjim

This is a prospect video but did the same thing in the game:

NICK VANDER TUIG PROSPECT VIDEO, RHP, UCLA - YouTube

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, .

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, .

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

What would you say it was under NCAA:

"a. The Windup. The pitcher shall stand facing (shoulders squared to) the batter,
with the pivot foot on or in front of and touching the pitcher’s plate. The
pitcher’s entire free foot shall not be in front of the pivot foot."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by umpjim

What would you say it was under NCAA:

"a. The Windup. The pitcher shall stand facing (shoulders squared to) the batter,
with the pivot foot on or in front of and touching the pitcher’s plate. The
pitcher’s entire free foot shall not be in front of the pivot foot."

UmpJim:

I do not doubt for a minute that under NCAA Rules that it is an Illegal Pitch/Balk, but Junior and I only umpire under NFHS rules except for the Roy Hobbs League (MLB/AL Rules) games that we do in the summer so when it comes to the college boys we leave that to the big dogs at the college level. I do download a copy of the NCAA Baseball Rules every year just to have a copy on file if I want to research something but that is far as it goes.

Still love the Jimi Hendrix in the background of the video though, .

MTD, Sr.

[Rich Ives]

Just because there are no runners doesn't mean the pitcher has to or is using windup.

Looks to me like they consider him in set, not windup, and all his shrug/step stuff is part of his natural motion that commits him to pitch. If so, it is legal.

As no one has called it on him all year, I'd go with the "deemed legal" thought.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Just because there are no runners doesn't mean the pitcher has to or is using windup.

Looks to me like they consider him in set, not windup, and all his shrug/step stuff is part of his natural motion that commits him to pitch. If so, it is legal.

As no one has called it on him all year, I'd go with the "deemed legal" thought.

That's a windup. He has a different set. Since your not complaining coach I don't have a problem with it. If you were complaining (which apparently hasn't happened in this players career) I'd tell you that you and I can tell the difference between his windup and set. Before FED wrapped itself around the axle about windup foot position we never enforced their rule as no one complained and you could always tell if a pitcher was in the windup or set by other clues. The NCAA verbiage is problematic though.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, .

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

Unless you live in an area where nobody calls it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

That's a windup. He has a different set. Since your not complaining coach I don't have a problem with it. If you were complaining (which apparently hasn't happened in this players career) I'd tell you that you and I can tell the difference between his windup and set. Before FED wrapped itself around the axle about windup foot position we never enforced their rule as no one complained and you could always tell if a pitcher was in the windup or set by other clues. The NCAA verbiage is problematic though.

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

Interesting rationalization. Works for me. Can I use it in FED?