Starting a game

tskill · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 03:28pm

Am looking for opinions on how to handle the following situation:

Background: High School game, NFHS rules, game time start is 4:30pm. Show up at 4:15pm on the field to inspect bats and helmets. Home team is finishing infield, visiting team is warming up on the sidelines. At 4:25pm have the pregame conference, we finish and it is now 4:30pm the scheduled start of the game.

The visiting team coach comes up to me and says hey, I haven't had a chance to take infield or have my team warm up.

My question is what would you say to the coach to resolve this? And does it matter at all if the Home coach doesn't have a problem with delaying the start to have the visiting team take infield practice? Does that even matter?

Looking for anyone's thoughts on this situation.

mcrowder · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 03:57pm

Not my problem, coach. Game starts at 4:30. Take it up with game admin next time - visitors should be out there FIRST, not after home team is out there.

(Note that this is 100% different from football, in that if a team shows up late for some reason, we are REQUIRED to give them warmup time. If we weren't and we didn't give it to them, you're much more likely to have an avoidable injury in football than in baseball).

Tim C · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 04:01pm

Gosh, not trying to offend anyone, I sure might disagree with you.

I mean I work games in the inner city when the school bus system just might have delivered the team to the site late.

Since whatever game I am working that day is my "biggest game" of that day I work with teams to make sure both teams have safely warmed up and had an equal chance at taking infield.

Of course I respect your view -- I just disagree with it.

wadeintothem · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 04:03pm

sucks to have to agree with tim.. but i do.

Should have let them do their infield and then did the pregame. Either way though, let them do their warm up.

So you have to wait a few extra minutes.. big deal. Things happen.

Daryl H. Long · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 08:45pm

I am amazed at the number of umpires I meet who believe that THEY are the ones to decided WHEN/IF a game shall begin.

Rules say that is the HOME coach's decision. Rule 4-1. The "other conditions" may be that the visiting team arrived late and did not have ample opportunity to have infield practice so the home coach delays the start to offer that courtesy. Nothing umpires can do about it so just relax.

While umpire jurisdiction begins when the umpires enter the field Rule 10-1-2 that does not give him the authority to sepercede the coach's decision about starting the game given him by Rule 4-1. It only gives him authority as prescribed in rule 10-1-1.

tjones1 · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 09:55pm

I agree, let them warm up. And the visiting teams doesn't always go first. I've seen where the home team goes first then the visiting and this is so that whenever the visiting team is done the field is clear for the pre-game meeting.

DG · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 10:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tskill
Am looking for opinions on how to handle the following situation:

Background: High School game, NFHS rules, game time start is 4:30pm. Show up at 4:15pm on the field to inspect bats and helmets. Home team is finishing infield, visiting team is warming up on the sidelines. At 4:25pm have the pregame conference, we finish and it is now 4:30pm the scheduled start of the game.

The visiting team coach comes up to me and says hey, I haven't had a chance to take infield or have my team warm up.

My question is what would you say to the coach to resolve this? And does it matter at all if the Home coach doesn't have a problem with delaying the start to have the visiting team take infield practice? Does that even matter?

Looking for anyone's thoughts on this situation.

It is generally accepted in my association that if the visitor's bus is late, we will give them the time they need to warmup and delay the game time. If I got on the field at 4:15, one of the first things I am interested in, before helmets and bats, is the status of warmups, who has done what. Pregame can be late, but I don't like to have it until everyone is ready to go.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 22, 2005, 10:17pm

I have changed my mind on this. I used to have the attitude that if the game is supposed to start at 4:30, then the game starts at 4:30. I have since dropped that attitude. The reason I changed, because no matter when they start, the game still ends when it gets dark. If it gets dark at 6:15 (usually before daylights saving time), it does not matter to me if they start at 5:15, it is still getting dark at 6:15. So they have an hour to get the game in. It is more their loss then it is mine. I get paid the same no matter when we start.

Also, there is no rule that allows for infield to be taken place either. I might encourage speeding up infield practice or not having it all together, but that is not a require part of the game. We do it out of courtesy and tradition.

Bottom line if you can convince the coaches to take a quicker infield or not take it at all, it is worth a try. If they insist, let them.

Peace

jicecone · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 12:03pm

I like to call strikes and outs.

IMO, a team that has at least had and oppurtunity to warmup and get comfortable will most likely give me strikes and outs sooner.

This may not always be true but, if it helps 75% of the time, I'm going to give them those extra few minutes.

DG · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 05:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have changed my mind on this. I used to have the attitude that if the game is supposed to start at 4:30, then the game starts at 4:30. I have since dropped that attitude. The reason I changed, because no matter when they start, the game still ends when it gets dark. If it gets dark at 6:15 (usually before daylights saving time), it does not matter to me if they start at 5:15, it is still getting dark at 6:15. So they have an hour to get the game in. It is more their loss then it is mine. I get paid the same no matter when we start.

Also, there is no rule that allows for infield to be taken place either. I might encourage speeding up infield practice or not having it all together, but that is not a require part of the game. We do it out of courtesy and tradition.

Bottom line if you can convince the coaches to take a quicker infield or not take it at all, it is worth a try. If they insist, let them.

Peace

Most games around here on fields without lights start at 4:00 until daylight savings time is in, and then some move to 4:30 and some stay at 4:00. When reading the original post I did not assume darkness was a factor at all.

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 05:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
Most games around here on fields without lights start at 4:00 until daylight savings time is in, and then some move to 4:30 and some stay at 4:00. When reading the original post I did not assume darkness was a factor at all.

Darkness can always be a factor here. We have a lot of teams that are spread out in the same conference. Sometimes traffic can play apart to when teams show up ready to play. After the time changes, it is not as much as a factor. I work in a conference that plays conference games at 4:45. It is not totally unusual to have a game or two with that starting time that does not start until after 5:00. This conference is really spread out and depending on who the teams are getting to the school can be a problem. Darkness is always a consideration to me when the traffic can interfere with the starting time.

Peace

DG · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 06:55pm

[/B][/QUOTE]
I work in a conference that plays conference games at 4:45.
Peace [/B][/QUOTE]Why do they play games at 4:45, before DST?

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 23, 2005, 06:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DG

I work in a conference that plays conference games at 4:45.
Peace [/B][/QUOTE]Why do they play games at 4:45, before DST? [/B][/QUOTE]

They play at that time after Daylight Savings Time.

Peace

tskill · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 24, 2005, 08:01pm

Appreciate all the replies. It's interesting to see everyone's opinion on this topic. My basic thought was to allow the other team to warm up. Traffic is usually bad around here. I just caught some flack from a few people on, "your job is to show up on time and start the game on time if both teams are present." So interesting to hear that most would allow teams ample time to warm up.

Also interesting on the interpretation of Rule 4-1. I think this may be stretching the "other conditions" clause a bit. I always took this rule to apply to the conditions of the field. This interpretation leaves it to be open to just about anything.

Thanks for all the input. I'm a relatively new official and appreciate the thoughts.

GerryB · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 24, 2005, 08:52pm

Let me add my agreement, let them warm up.
The "late bus" thing happens around here often; unfortunately, the home team usually does not start infield until the visitors are physically on the field. The home coaches grouse, but getting the home team started so that the visitors can have the field when they arrive helps move things a little bit.