Ejected coach mad

[tankmjg24]

So I will spare you the details of the ejection (unless requested) but basically I had a coach that was upset with me over enforcing the rulebook, then there was a safe out judgement call. He continued to argue the judgement call so he was ejected.

After being ejected he pulls his team into the dugout and states he is not playing if I continue to umpire. The league president is called and comes over. I explain the situation to him and he says ok. The coach now wants to tell his side of the story. He starts by saying I had an attitude all night long and that he wants to show him a video of me staring him down (I in fact did do this. After enforcing two rules that he had never followed up to this point he started smarting off. I shot him the shut up this is your warning glance, but his reply was merely what are you looking at.) The president decides since the opposing coach does not want to win by forfeit that he will merely reschedule the game. Now my issue is I feel like my partner and I were not backed by the president. The manager only has to sit their next game played (so he either will get to coach when this game is continued, or he will not have to sit his one game suspension).

So, what does everyone think of the outcome of this? First, what do you all think of the coaches recording comment (I have not seen the video personally) and rather I should have shot him a look? Next, I am debating writing a letter with my complaints and hoping that someone reads it. I have also thought of just telling the league that I shall not be back as an official. Thoughts?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

tankmjg24:

I have three questions:

1) What age group?

2) Who called the League President and when?

3) Were you the PU or the BU (I assume you were part of a two-person crew.

Until we know the answer to these three questions it will be difficult to answer your questions.

MTD, Sr.

[tankmjg24]

1) What age group?
Little League Senior Division which is 15 and 16 year olds

2) Who called the League President and when?
The league president was present on a different field. He was summoned
by a parent of the team after the coach told this particular parent to
go get the president.

3) Were you the PU or the BU (I assume you were part of a two-person crew.
I was the base umpire in a two man system.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

So I will spare you the details of the ejection (unless requested) but basically I had a coach that was upset with me over enforcing the rulebook, then there was a safe out judgement call. He continued to argue the judgement call so he was ejected.

After being ejected he pulls his team into the dugout and states he is not playing if I continue to umpire. The league president is called and comes over. I explain the situation to him and he says ok. The coach now wants to tell his side of the story. He starts by saying I had an attitude all night long and that he wants to show him a video of me staring him down (I in fact did do this. After enforcing two rules that he had never followed up to this point he started smarting off. I shot him the shut up this is your warning glance, but his reply was merely what are you looking at.) The president decides since the opposing coach does not want to win by forfeit that he will merely reschedule the game. Now my issue is I feel like my partner and I were not backed by the president. The manager only has to sit their next game played (so he either will get to coach when this game is continued, or he will not have to sit his one game suspension).

So, what does everyone think of the outcome of this? First, what do you all think of the coaches recording comment (I have not seen the video personally) and rather I should have shot him a look? Next, I am debating writing a letter with my complaints and hoping that someone reads it. I have also thought of just telling the league that I shall not be back as an official. Thoughts?

The coach sits out the next scheduled game and the finish of this one.

[RPatrino]

I used to do Little League, I was a league UIC, District Umpire, Assistant District Administrator, League Board Member, so my credentials speak for themselves. I had the 'privilege' to sit in on disciplinary meetings with managers/coaches/ players, as well as protest committee meetings.

My particular pet peeve was how poor behavior by so called 'adults' would be defended, tolerated and generally ignored. I can't tell you how many times I was the lone dissenting voice for discipline and holding these people accountable for their actions. Grown adults, abusing youth umpires, was my particular battle. The final straw was sitting in a meeting and being told, " you know Bob, your problem is that you think umpires are special". I calmly said, "you are right, I do think umpires are special, please accept my resignation" . I never worked another game for that league after that night.

So, this long story leads to my point. If you expect a board of directors to take responsible action, you will be sadly disappointed. If you expect anyone to back an umpire, you are delusional. We have our own backs. We enforce the rules, and not care about who supports us or not.

Rant over, carry on!

[BigUmp56]

It's time to look for another league to call games, if that's possible.

Tim.

[jicecone]

[QUOTE=tankmjg24;896754] I have also thought of just telling the league that I shall not be back as an official. Thoughts?[/QUOTE

This is probably your best option unless, you like kissing up to people that are spineless and just believe that their only function in life is to try and make everyone happy. Kind of like a PIT (Politician in training). And if that is the case hand in your hat as an official.

I just did a game on Tues in which one of the coaches approached me at the begining of the game and discussed questioning calls. I have done several of his games. I told him I have no problem answering reasonable questions about a call or a rule but, if you come out to argue about a rule you know nothing about or try to show me up, your probably gonna be going hiome early.

Guess who went home early over a straight forward infield fly that the fielder was parked under but did not catch, that I announced. After telling me I owed him two calls, I sent him home. He complained to the Pres. and he informed him that he was suspended the next game.

This will not be the only time in your officiating career this situation will arise and as long as you act professional, not be confrontational, know and enforce the rules as properly as possible, you can walk away with your head up high.

SCREW THEM!!!!!

[MD Longhorn]

Well... since this is Little League, the President is not the be-all end-all of the League.

If your scheduler has any character at all, he will schedule the same crew to complete this game (if it is finished at all, as it should not be). The coach (by LL Rule) is already ejected from this game, and cannot be present for the conclusion.

You need to put all of this is writing, without vitriole --- just the facts --- and send to your league president and UIC formally. I would send this same note to the head of the LL chapter you belong to.

There's no way this game should be continued - it is a forfeit, by LL rule.

If all else fails, I would follow the advice of several here and simply not work for them anymore.

[thumpferee]

Been there, done that!

As jicecone has eloquently said, "screw them".

Trust me, you won't lose any sleep!

I do have a question about the video. Where was the view from? Don't tell me he had a video monitoring device in the dugout

[ozzy6900]

Not knowing what "rules" you enforced (because you do not explain the ejection), it's hard to say if were you right or wrong. I have 2 points to make on what I read:

1. I don't know how you warned the coach or what you said. Do not use the "this is your warning" crap or challenge them by saying "one more word and you are out". Listen to the coach. When he stops talking, tell him what you saw and what you called, then say "Okay coach, we're going to get back to playing ball now" and walk away from him. If he follows you arguing, he has signed his ejection warrant.
2. When you eject a coach and he pulls his team off the field, he is challenging your authority. Inform both sides that the game is over and don't say forfeited. Let the league officials handle this. Get your partner and leave - just leave. Report to your UIC or fill out your report (we have to write reports). The game is over. Do not argue with the coach or try to negotiate. He ended the game and took his team off. Let him live with it.

[Manny A]

My two cents:

The president has no authority here. He can't decide not to forfeit the game. The authority to forfeit resides with the game UIC, by LL rule 4.15. Once the forfeit is recorded, the BOD has the authority to review it. But since this was a clear reason to forfeit under 4.15(2)--refuses to continue play unless the game was terminated by the umpire--the BOD has no legitimate reason to nullify the forfeit.

Where was the UIC in all of this? You were the BU, and typically the UIC in LL games is the PU. Why didn't he/she get involved in the discussion? If I were the UIC of this game, I would've gladly told the president that he needs to go away and that this game is forfeited.

As for the recording comment, I wouldn't give two spits about it if all it will show is me glaring at him. This is a common tactic we use to tell players and coaches to STFU. I would be more than happy to explain that to anyone who questions what I was doing.

The letter through the league UIC to the BOD may be appropriate. You could even request an audience with the BOD at their next meeting if you so desire. As for no longer umpiring in the organization, that all depends on how much you enjoy working their games, where you may find work elsewhere, etc. etc. Like Bob P, I've run the gamut of LL involvement from a volunteer umpire thru district UIC, and I know that yours is a thankless job dealing with more than just the occasional bonehead player or coach. But if that's all that's available in your area now, you may be cutting your nose in spite of your face, as they say.

[tankmjg24]

To give the short version of the ejection, field has a double first base. F3 fields a grounder and stumbles going to first. He falls onto the white portion, but his glove with the ball inside is over the orange. This is an easy out call. Coach starts arguing that F3 was on the wrong bag and that the rule states he must be on the white. I start to explain the call to him and he says no thanks I want to talk to the head umpire and starts to walk to my partner. My partner quickly directs him away as it is not his call. Coach continues to argue that the call was wrong, ignores my warning that we are not going to argue it anymore, then tells me that the rulebook says white and the player was on orange and that I need to learn the rules. Easy ejection.

I have been a local umpire, assistant league UIC, league UIC, and assistant district UIC in various areas. I have found in strong districts and leagues that enforce the rules things go smoothly. In this particular league, they seem to not enforce the rules apppropritely and that the board is controlled by local politics that think they rule with an iron fist.

[David B]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I used to do Little League, I was a league UIC, District Umpire, Assistant District Administrator, League Board Member, so my credentials speak for themselves. I had the 'privilege' to sit in on disciplinary meetings with managers/coaches/ players, as well as protest committee meetings.

My particular pet peeve was how poor behavior by so called 'adults' would be defended, tolerated and generally ignored. I can't tell you how many times I was the lone dissenting voice for discipline and holding these people accountable for their actions. Grown adults, abusing youth umpires, was my particular battle. The final straw was sitting in a meeting and being told, " you know Bob, your problem is that you think umpires are special". I calmly said, "you are right, I do think umpires are special, please accept my resignation" . I never worked another game for that league after that night.

So, this long story leads to my point. If you expect a board of directors to take responsible action, you will be sadly disappointed. If you expect anyone to back an umpire, you are delusional. We have our own backs. We enforce the rules, and not care about who supports us or not.

Rant over, carry on!

well stated, i would only add "been there done that" as you stated above.

Thanks
David

[DG]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

After being ejected he pulls his team into the dugout and states he is not playing if I continue to umpire.

The PU has authority to forfeit. If you are PU forfeit the game and leave. If you are BU discuss with your partner and he can forfeit.

League can do whatever they want afterwards, and if you don't like what they do you can stop umpiring there, but this game is over. The league president can see you and your partner in the parking lot if he likes, if he gets there before you leave. Under no circumstance would I be talked into returning to the field to continue that game after it has been forfeited.

[rbmartin]

Move on to a different league or move on to JV/Varsity level....You'll be much happier.