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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 21, 2004, 10:54pm
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i'm on year 2.. 45 games under my belt or thereabouts...and I finally ejected one. I think its Irishmikes fault :P

I've moved to a new league, and as with the complaint I posted about earlier.. this is a very abusive league towards blues IMO and a new experience for me.... I think I've had it with them... because I consider myself very patient for an umpire.

Anyway ASA12U .. 1st play of the game... close out at 1B (i'm bu)... I think it was an asst coach or team mom in the dugout told the kids VERY loudly "dont worry about it kids it is just a crappy umpire".. definately knowing I was right there in A (she in 1B dugout).

I tossed her for unsportsmanlike.

My questions.

1. Did I pull the trigger to quickly?

2. How do you eject someone? I didnt want to make a MLB show of it.. I just walked up to her and said "youre outta here, unsportsmanlike" and when she said ok, i walked away and that was the end of it.

Decent game after that.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 22, 2004, 12:11am
Ref Ump Welsch
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You probably did pull the trigger a bit too quickly. I'm not judging you, but think a warning to the offending person and the head coach probably would have been sufficient. If the behavior continued, then the ejection would be more warranted.

As for the ejection method, there was something in Referee magazine a month or so ago. I can't seem to find the particular issue I have in mind, but the mechanic goes something like this: step back so that you are at a right angle to the person, and at the same time, give the arm throw (just like you sell an out call) using the index finger and yell "you're out of the game!" I know this sounds harsh or showoffish, but it can be done so you don't look the MLB guys making a show of it.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 22, 2004, 12:15am
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ugh.. i knew i might have. I think its just been too much in this league... real jerks.. my feeling was she was teaching the kids wrong and teaching their abusiveness and i've already had kids make comments in this league from the dugout (when I didnt know who said it and just warned the coach - not same team) and I think my line has been had. Gotta remember to start fresh every time.

[Edited by wadeintothem on May 22nd, 2004 at 01:17 AM]
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 22, 2004, 01:16am
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"Did I pull the trigger to quickly?"

No! They can make lots of comments about what they think about the call ("terrible call, Blue") and you let it go. If it continues it's time for a warning. But they cross the line when they make a derogatory comment about you personally. Then they go without a second chance.

"How do you eject someone?"

Just like you did. I ejected my first coach in many years this season because he also went over the line with a personal comment. In the parking lot after the game my partner said to me, "Did your eject XXXX?" When I said yes, he wanted to know why and when.

And that was fine with me. I see no reason to put on a show. The ejection was between the coach and myself, and no one else needs to know.

WMB
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 22, 2004, 05:25am
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I agree with WMB (again) You don't have to make a big issue of it. Sometimes, it's just throwing gas on the fire. If you do it quietly and walk off, you just pulled the rug out from under them. They aren't the show, and no one is paying attention to them as they leave. Each situation is different and you take them one by one. I only have a handful of ejections, but I've done it both ways. Sometimes, a warning will suffice, sometimes not. When I chunk someone, it's because I have to admit I've lost control of the game and need to get it back. It sounds like you asserted control and the rest of the game went nicely and smoothly. Good job.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 22, 2004, 07:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by wadeintothem

I've moved to a new league, and as with the complaint I posted about earlier.. this is a very abusive league towards blues IMO and a new experience for me.... I think I've had it with them... because I consider myself very patient for an umpire.

wadeintothem,
Perhaps your predisposition to the league's coaches affected your judgement.
Ask a few questions:
  • Are dreading the fact that you have a game with that league?
  • What are your reasons to umpire?
  • What were your reasons to umpire?
  • Are you still having fun?

    And who knows, maybe the fact that you did pull the trigger will benefit the umpires in your league because of the message you sent, ... that sporting behaviour does, in fact, have a place in those dugouts.

    Good luck with it.
    mick

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      #7 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 08:29am
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by wadeintothem
    i'm on year 2.. 45 games under my belt or thereabouts...and I finally ejected one. I think its Irishmikes fault :P

    I've moved to a new league, and as with the complaint I posted about earlier.. this is a very abusive league towards blues IMO and a new experience for me.... I think I've had it with them... because I consider myself very patient for an umpire.

    Anyway ASA12U .. 1st play of the game... close out at 1B (i'm bu)... I think it was an asst coach or team mom in the dugout told the kids VERY loudly "dont worry about it kids it is just a crappy umpire".. definately knowing I was right there in A (she in 1B dugout).

    I tossed her for unsportsmanlike.

    My questions.

    1. Did I pull the trigger to quickly?

    2. How do you eject someone? I didnt want to make a MLB show of it.. I just walked up to her and said "youre outta here, unsportsmanlike" and when she said ok, i walked away and that was the end of it.

    Decent game after that.

    Don't care how they are coaching or teaching their kids, for me it is the same regardless of the age of the participants. USC is USC whether it is a 12 yo or a 50 yo and that gets you ejected. As you may have noticed, I don't particularly care for those who use age as justification for altering a rule and effect. I do believe age and ability should be taken into consideration for rules involving plays (IF, IDB, etc), but not for acts which involve the dangering of another or abuse, verbal or physical.

    You pulled the trigger when you believed it is necessary. Apparently, this weak-role-model adult thought she was being cute. Sounds more like she was being ugly.

    Don't worry about it, it's not worth getting grey hair over it.

    As far as mechanic, I rarely point at anything except the person ejected (and then only when it is necessary to make sure they know who is leaving). I don't get loud. No need to advertise, the word will get around the field that you tossed someone.

    Oh, BTW, to me, that was a personal insult and attempt to subvert your authority.

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      #8 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 08:47am
    Ref Ump Welsch
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    So, if someone says something personal about an umpire from the dugout or on the field, we're supposed to eject them automatically? What about this line: "Aw, come on blue, ya gotta be kidding me!" If I were to eject everyone that said that, I would probably have the world record for ejections.
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      #9 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 09:11am
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    No I'd look for things like "You suck" or worse. Its a line and I suspect we all know when our line has been crossed. My problem is I do AA slo-pitch and youth BB and in the slo-pitch I turn my ears off and I tend to do the same in the competitive BB and I don't hear anything a coach says unless its right to my face.
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      #10 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 09:25am
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
    So, if someone says something personal about an umpire from the dugout or on the field, we're supposed to eject them automatically? What about this line: "Aw, come on blue, ya gotta be kidding me!" If I were to eject everyone that said that, I would probably have the world record for ejections.

    Welsch......this IS a common one (usually associated with judgement calls) but in and of itself is not a personal insult and I never do more than give a confident look in their direction and firmly state something like "No Sir, Let's Play Ball!", or "Hustle Up Switch'em Up!" depending on the point of the game.

    Had they added an expletive in there anywhere I firmly would have responded with a warning. Certainly, you have to exercise some judgement but you do not have to tolerate insulting comments from anyone associated with your game.

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      #11 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 10:34am
    JEL JEL is offline
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    "Aw come on blue, ya gotta be kidding me!" is a question aimed to show disagreement with a call. It is not a personal insult. I will say "no, I'm not" and thats that.

    "don't worry about it kids, it is just a crappy umpire" is a derogatory statement made to undermine the authority, and respect of an official. If said by a team member, or coach, they have to go, no warning, no apologies.

    wadeintothem, I think you acted properly, good job.

    As for "tossing mechanics", I am known as the "NUBBER". Havent tossed many, really try to avoid it, but when I do, I point towards parking lot with index finger and say, "that's it, you're gone". BTW, I lost half of index finger 25 years ago, my fellow blues gave my the nubber nickname!
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      #12 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 06:20pm
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    You did good.
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      #13 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 07:25pm
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    Thanks all for your responses!

    I dont feel "aw come on blue" etc is an attack.. I could tolerate a 100 of those before I tolerate "crappy umpire" .. first off it's not true - I work hard to know the rules and try to ump a good game... and 2nd of all.. I got a line. That was it. Not to mention I did not like being degraded by a coach in a dugout full of kids. I feel much better knowing some may have done the same rather than feeling like I am some rogue ump on a mission; which I am not.

    Anyway, I did 3 14U games today and they went great. Interestingly, I did have a parent say "Are you the ump who tosses parents if they say anything"..

    jeez. 1 coach and the word spreads thats not even close to the truth. Well there were no probs at all. I did take a few good hits and i'm pretty much exhausted but thats why they pay me the "big bucks" I guess.

    Was great fun. glad to be working the "upper level" rec ball. Good teams, good pitching, good coaching today.

    Thanks again for the replies.
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      #14 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 07:34pm
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    Wade,
    I agree with those that stated the remark was derogatory and personal - and I'll add that it probably was meant for your ears. It was the right move to toss them.

    As for how to toss them - a big action must have a big finger ejection while one like this can be dealt with by just telling the coach/manager that so & so is done - gone from sight & sound.

    To JEL - we've got a guy around here who lost half of a couple of fingers a number of years ago. Dunno how it really is for those who are there, but I think I'd prefer "Nubber" to either "Stumpy" or "Stubby". But Tommy has been written up a couple of times in Referee - for another sport.
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      #15 (permalink)  
    Old Sat May 22, 2004, 08:12pm
    JEL JEL is offline
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    To JEL - we've got a guy around here who lost half of a couple of fingers a number of years ago. Dunno how it really is for those who are there, but I think I'd prefer "Nubber" to either "Stumpy" or "Stubby". But Tommy has been written up a couple of times in Referee - for another sport. [/B][/QUOTE]

    What is really funny is when the coach first sees my strike two signal! One guy asked if they only got half a strike, I told him I might be sending him a message! (this of course was a "friendly")
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