Safe on 2nd, goes back to 1st

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

There are several rules to consider when looking for support on this situation. Check out this link below and it will walk you through the the scenarios ...

Solution for Case Play 2013-03: Segura as R2 Steals First | Close Call Sports and the Umpire Ejection Fantasy League

Who are the folks that posted this on the UEFL website? I seriously doubt they are authoritative interpreters of the rules.

I go back to the scenario I posed earlier to Rich Ives: B1 could hit a clean double, and then B2 and B3 strike out. R2 erroneously thinks there are three outs, so he starts jogging to his dugout on the first base side. He is informed more than halfway to first by his base coach that there are only two outs. I can't imagine that the rules would allow him to hightail it to first base to avoid the out.

I still feel the Comment in 7.01 is to be interpreted as, "Once the pitcher assumes the rubber, a runner cannot return." I don't believe the rules makers intended it to apply at any time after the next pitch or play from when the runner first obtains the advanced base.

Besides, how would you score it? "Runner steals second and then returns to first base one pitch later due to...what??" And he was credited with a steal of second, and a caught stealing of second, during the same on-base period!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I still feel the Comment in 7.01 is to be interpreted as, "Once the pitcher assumes the rubber, a runner cannot return." I don't believe the rules makers intended it to apply at any time after the next pitch or play from when the runner first obtains the advanced base.

Fair enough ... and you're certainly not alone in reading it that way.

Others read it to mean WHILE the pitcher is on the rubber. I bet if you polled 100 umpires, you'd get between 40 and 60 on either side of this. The argument has been mulled before.

OTOH - you have this example, in a real game, with real MLB umpires, who ruled that he could, in fact, return to first. And the last time we hashed this out, it was the same thing... MLB umps, runner allowed to go back to first (that one was an overslide of 2nd, kind of similar play if you take Braun away). So ... given 2 actual plays, and no evidence of MLB coming out saying they screwed it up (either time) ... which way you wanna go?

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by SAWolf

Hi,

Here is the clip:
MIL: Top Plays | CHC@MIL: Segura's wacky baserunning does not end well - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Isn't there an obstruction as Segura is returning to 2nd base? And, doesn't Segura get tagged while off the base?

[SAWolf]

Ok, I reread the rule on the pitcher disengaging (break) from the plate:

In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first.

When the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides.

I didn't see the pitcher do either. But I also reread the unoccupied base rule:

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

So if the runner is stealing you may just step and throw to the base that he is going to? You don't have to 'break' or disengage? Interesting I always thought that you had to...

I also checked the rule on running bases in reverse order:

7.08 Any runner is out when—(i) After he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The
umpire shall immediately call “Time” and declare the runner out;
Rule 7.08(i) Comment: If a runner touches an unoccupied base and then thinks the ball was caught or is decoyed into returning to the base he last touched, he may be put out running back to that base, but if he reaches the previously occupied base safely he cannot be put out while in contact with that base.

So then going all the way back to one was actually legal? Wow!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAWolf

Ok, I reread the rule on the pitcher disengaging (break) from the plate:





I didn't see the pitcher do either. But I also reread the unoccupied base rule:

He didn't do either. But, he did make a (legal) move to second and as part of that he came off the rubber so he's now an infielder and can throw anywhere.

So if the runner is stealing you may just step and throw to the base that he is going to? You don't have to 'break' or disengage? Interesting I always thought that you had to...

A common myth that really shouldn't be a myth.

I also checked the rule on running bases in reverse order:


So then going all the way back to one was actually legal? Wow!

I don't think 7.08 is the relevant rule. I think it's 7.01