Safe on 2nd, goes back to 1st

[voiceoflg]

OBR. But I'd like to see the FED rule.

R1 & R2. Double steal, F1 throws to F5 on a pickoff attempt. R2 caught in a rundown goes back to 2nd. R1 arrives at 2nd. R1 called out. R2 thinking he is out jogs toward the dugout. 1st base coach tells R2 the ball is live and to get on the bag at first. R2 arrives safely at 1st and remains there for the next pitch.

I looked up "running bases in reverse order" on the internet, because they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true (insert sarcasm emoticon here). I was surprised to find the word "myth" come up often. That very scenario was allowed in Milwaukee Friday night. Since I broadcast high school games, in the unlikely event I see something similar, would running back to first after legally acquiring second be allowed in FED rules?

[Rich Ives]

In both pro and HS (FED) rules running the bases in reverse order is only illegal if done to confuse the defense or to make a travesty. Neither was the case here.

If just running in reverse order was illegal you couldn't have a rundown.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In both pro and HS (FED) rules running the bases in reverse order is only illegal if done to confuse the defense or to make a travesty. Neither was the case here.

If just running in reverse order was illegal you couldn't have a rundown.

True. But in this case, R2 started at second base on the pitch. He cannot legally return to first base when play is complete.

Of course, I'm assuming by "R1 and R2", he meant that R2 was the runner who started out at second base, and not at first base. That's how I understood it, based upon his description of what happened.

I'm not sure what the FED rule is, but in OBR, it's the Rule 7.01 Comment.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Manny A

True. But in this case, R2 started at second base on the pitch. He cannot legally return to first base when play is complete.

Of course, I'm assuming by "R1 and R2", he meant that R2 was the runner who started out at second base, and not at first base.

I'm not sure what the FED rule is, but in OBR, it's the Rule 7.01 Comment.

My take: It was a new play. The clock starts over.

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Of course, I'm assuming by "R1 and R2", he meant that R2 was the runner who started out at second base, and not at first base. That's how I understood it, based upon his description of what happened.

It was, Manny. R1 on first base, R2 on second base. My apologies if that is wrong and caused confusion.

[bob jenkins]

That's right, and I think both the Cubs and the umpires got it wrong

[Mrumpiresir]

Hypothetical situation;

Nobody on, nobody out. B1 hits a clean double and after play has ceased, stupid B1 walks off second base toward the first base coach to hand him his batting gloves without requesting "Time". The first base coach tells him the ball is live and to get on the bag. But B1 is now 10 feet from second and now the defense realizes what is happening. They throw to F6 who is at second base. B1 is safe at first on a throw that is dropped by F3.

Anything wrong with this? Is this different than the OP?

[SAWolf]

Hi,

Here is the clip:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...y_26416825&v=3

Questions:
1. Isn't that a balk from the pitcher? (he did not break and he threw to an unoccupied base?)
2. Two runners on one base the following runner is out when only when tagged however if the preceding runner stepped off the base thinking he was out and got tagged first would the following runner be able to safely claim second?
3. The runner going back to one was just crazy, right?

One large mess, coming right up...

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by SAWolf

Hi,

Here is the clip:
MIL: Top Plays | CHC@MIL: Segura's wacky baserunning does not end well - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Questions:
1. Isn't that a balk from the pitcher? (he did not break and he threw to an unoccupied base?)
2. Two runners on one base the following runner is out when only when tagged however if the preceding runner stepped off the base thinking he was out and got tagged first would the following runner be able to safely claim second?
3. The runner going back to one was just crazy, right?

One large mess, coming right up...

1. F1 stepped towards 2nd, then disengaged. He was an infielder when he threw to 3rd.

2. Yes. The following runner is out when tagged only if the preceding runner is also on the base.

3. I don't know about crazy, but certainly ignorant of the rule.

[Rich Ives]

BTW: You can throw to an unoccupied if it's to make a play. As the runner was stealing a throw to 3B would be legal.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

BTW: You can throw to an unoccupied if it's to make a play. As the runner was stealing a throw to 3B would be legal.

As Rich stated, you can throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making a play. Many people don't read the second part of the rule.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

3. I don't know about crazy, but certainly ignorant of the rule.

Ignorant of which rule?

Rita

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Ignorant of which rule?

Rita

The rule that says he is entitled to 2nd base and is not out (correctly signaled by U2).

[Manny A]

Ok, now that I saw the play:

1. There is no balk on the pitcher. He did step toward second and did not throw, then disengaged and threw to third, all of which is legal.

2. There was no obstruction on F4. He backpedalled and got out of Segura's way at the last second.

3. How is Braun not out at second as soon as Segura slides back into the bag? Isn't Braun physically past Segura?

And Rich, there was at least one pitch delivered to Braun after Segura stole second, for Ball Four that put Braun on first (I assume only one pitch; there could have been more fouled off before the walk that the video replay didn't show). So are you still advocating that Segura can legally return to first base?

For the life of me, I don't understand how this crew allowed this to happen.

[Robmoz]

There are several rules to consider when looking for support on this situation. Check out this link below and it will walk you through the the scenarios ...

Solution for Case Play 2013-03: Segura as R2 Steals First | Close Call Sports and the Umpire Ejection Fantasy League

and it also has a video clip ....

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CHC@MIL: Segura's wacky baserunning does not end well - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia