NLCS blown base award

[Rich]

No offense to Bob Pariseau, but I found him to be more verbose than great.

Do you have a tl;dr version of the novel above?

Sometimes you just have to umpire.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich

Do you have a tl;dr version of the novel above?

Yes, OBR 8.01(e).

[Lapopez]

The biggest myth perpetuated in this thread is that in order to apply 8.01(e), a pitcher must disengage, that is, step back AND drop his hands. Invoking 8.01(e) ONLY requires that the pitcher step back, not also drop his hands.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

The biggest myth perpetuated in this thread is that in order to apply 8.01(e), a pitcher must disengage, that is, step back AND drop his hands. Invoking 8.01(e) ONLY requires that the pitcher step back, not also drop his hands.

Ok, but in this instance, hasn't the pitcher started the throw to first before he finished stepping back? So he had not yet complied with 8.01(e) because he threw to first while in the process of stepping back.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Ok, but in this instance, hasn't the pitcher started the throw to first before he finished stepping back? So he had not yet complied with 8.01(e) because he threw to first while in the process of stepping back.

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

Then rewatch the video

Seriously though, the turn to first starts at the shoulders while the pivot foot is in the air.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

You don't have to attempt to visualize ... we're discussing an ACTUAL play here.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You don't have to attempt to visualize ... we're discussing an ACTUAL play here.

So the "wild throw" (yes, that's the verbiage in 8.01(e)) took place prior to Cain landing his pivot foot behind the rubber?

Before you answer that, consider Rule 7.05(g) AR: "The term “when the wild throw was made” means when the throw actually left the player’s hand..."

[Carl Childress]

Bob P is from San Francisco. The email I have is not active.

Mr. Lopez wrote me to ask my opinion. Here is my reply:

I stayed out of the thread because a lot of other "Big Dogs" went with the MLBUs.

They're wrong, at least according to the video.

It seems obvious that Cain disengaged by stepping back of the pitcher's plate. When he threw away the ball, that's the classic example of: "One from the mound, two from the field."

My opinion: The crew missed it. They has been a lot of rationalizing and bombast. But where I've called, if I didn't send that runner to third, I would have to send the offensive coach to the showers.

You may quote me on this in your next post.

Paul replied he wouldn't quote me. So ... I've quoted myself.

Let me add this: Where I've called, on the jump spin the pitcher's pivot foot NEVER winds up behind the rubber. Generally, it's more toward the third-base side of the diamond. I'm talking about games played from PONY through NCAA D1 and MSBL games.

Someone wrote about balking this move if the pitcher DID NOT throw to first. If it's a jump spin, then BALK. If it's a step off the rubber (as the video shows), it's not a balk but a bluff.

Two bases, guys. Two bases, guys.

Oh, I called my first game in March of 1954. My most recent game was fall high school ball on Thursday, October 25.

[Lapopez]

I'm going to grab a seat on the sidelines now. I'll update the tally on election day, November 6, 2012.

ETA: I've got:
One Base Camp=13
Two Base Camp=8 (Thanks, Carl)
Unknown=1 (JJ)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Carl Childress

Bob P is from San Francisco. The email I have is not active.

I've found a Robert Pariseau listed as a former (it appears) UIC of Little League District 15 in Massachusetts. What are the odds?

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've found a Robert Pariseau listed as a former (it appears) UIC of Little League District 15 in Massachusetts. What are the odds?

This Bob P is now in Washington. I remember the other Bob P though, and I do recall he posted on the LL boards I used to frequent.

[Lapopez]

When debating, it's very important to understand your opponents argument so that, if you disagree with the conclusion, you can formulate your own argument that directly and specifically contradicts it. Rich Ives, based on your recent posts, I am not convinced that you understand the arguments put forth in my dissertation.

I've been trying to understand yours, and I think I do. The cornerstone is the section of the MLBUM that we both quoted. You are taking a specific jump turn, as described in the MLBUM, where a pitcher steps with his pivot foot toward third base and extrapolating the conclusion to a different jump turn in which the pitcher (Cain) steps back. In light of the language of 8.01(e), I find this to be wrong, but I am grateful we have finally come to a point where I can agree to disagree. Finally the voters have an issue to consider: whether your extrapolation of MLBUM properly supersedes 8.01(e). Obviously I don't think so and it's nice to finally have a big dog in my camp. Furthermore, it's time for me to go to bed. GOOD NIGHT!

[johnnyg08]

The MLBUM citation some of you are using is a jump turn in front of the rubber. In the Cain play, he stepped back. Stepping back does not apply to what is being posted about jump turn from MLBUM. This has happened to me before...it happens so fast, they likely didn't remember what they saw and botched the award. This should have been a two base award and it wasn't and they got away with it w/o an ejection.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

The MLBUM citation some of you are using is a jump turn in front of the rubber.

Where in any interp anywhere does the landing place of the pivot foot on a jump turn come into consideration? The only concern should be gaining distance and direction with the free foot.