Twins @ Tigers - interference call

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Not unless someone utters the words "I protest". You have no idea what his ruling is and therefore, should not be getting involved. He may have ruled something that you do not know what the call was.

Most of the time, I agree. If there is SOME judgement call that ends with the result the umpire gave, then I understand what you're saying.

Unfortunately, in this case, there was NO judgement decision by that umpire that results in one and only one out. Either he judged intentional interference which results in 2 outs, or he didn't which results in zero. 1 is just not an option here. Therefore SOME rule misapplication must be at play here and you MUST get together to fix it.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Most of the time, I agree. If there is SOME judgement call that ends with the result the umpire gave, then I understand what you're saying.

Unfortunately, in this case, there was NO judgement decision by that umpire that results in one and only one out. Either he judged intentional interference which results in 2 outs, or he didn't which results in zero. 1 is just not an option here. Therefore SOME rule misapplication must be at play here and you MUST get together to fix it.

How do you know there was no judgment by him to result in 1 out? Do you know exactly what the call was? Everyone speculates it was b/c of his arm motion and whatever else he did. No one knows what that call was at the time of the call except the calling umpire. May be why none of the others stepped on his call either. Until it was explained to them, they didn't know what it was and left him to make his call until asked.

It appears the group hugging and stepping on other umpire's toes is trickling down into the lower ranks. I thought it was a bad precedent being set then and hoped it would not go further than that. I guess I was wrong and doing some wishful thinking. I own my calls and only ask if I need to (which is rare). I expect my partners to do the same and respect my responsibilities to be left to me to handle.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

How do you know there was no judgment by him to result in 1 out? Do you know exactly what the call was? Everyone speculates it was b/c of his arm motion and whatever else he did. No one knows what that call was at the time of the call except the calling umpire. May be why none of the others stepped on his call either. Until it was explained to them, they didn't know what it was and left him to make his call until asked.

It appears the group hugging and stepping on other umpire's toes is trickling down into the lower ranks. I thought it was a bad precedent being set then and hoped it would not go further than that. I guess I was wrong and doing some wishful thinking. I own my calls and only ask if I need to (which is rare). I expect my partners to do the same and respect my responsibilities to be left to me to handle.

I did not think, from what we've seen, that the ball hitting the runner could possibly be in the umpire's mind, especially after the circle-around signal, whatever that was. I'm not in the "stop everything, discuss everything, get every call right at all costs" crowd - far from it.

But if you have a strong idea that a rule has been misinterpreted (rule ... not judgement), you MUST address it.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I did not think, from what we've seen, that the ball hitting the runner could possibly be in the umpire's mind, especially after the circle-around signal, whatever that was. I'm not in the "stop everything, discuss everything, get every call right at all costs" crowd - far from it.

But if you have a strong idea that a rule has been misinterpreted (rule ... not judgement), you MUST address it.

Then, you better be damn sure of yourself. And, be prepared for the fall out with your partner for not respecting his area. If you think that, give a look and hope he sees it. But, if he doesn't, nothing to address until the team addresses it themselves.

And, you better also be damn sure it had nothing to do with judgment before even thinking about it. I still say it is his call until he asks for help on it. Don't approach him at all since you don't know why the call was made until it is explained.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Then, you better be damn sure of yourself. And, be prepared for the fall out with your partner for not respecting his area. If you think that, give a look and hope he sees it. But, if he doesn't, nothing to address until the team addresses it themselves.

And, you better also be damn sure it had nothing to do with judgment before even thinking about it. I still say it is his call until he asks for help on it. Don't approach him at all since you don't know why the call was made until it is explained.

If I am the calling umpire in this play and none of my partners speak up, I will not only ding myself for missing the play in the first place, I will ding them as well when I fill out the evaluations.
Realize this is a very unusual play, and those are the ones we usually screw up. If a word from a partner corrects the situation quickly and according to the rules, let's hear it! No need to wait for someone to say "Protest" and THEN do the leg work. If nobody speaks up we all look like we don't know what we're doing.
There is no way any rule interp on this play would end with the outs and runners he ended up with - which makes me damn sure it wasn't adjudicated properly.
So, I agree. We disagree.

JJ

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by JJ

If I am the calling umpire in this play and none of my partners speak up, I will not only ding myself for missing the play in the first place, I will ding them as well when I fill out the evaluations.
Realize this is a very unusual play, and those are the ones we usually screw up. If a word from a partner corrects the situation quickly and according to the rules, let's hear it! No need to wait for someone to say "Protest" and THEN do the leg work. If nobody speaks up we all look like we don't know what we're doing.
There is no way any rule interp on this play would end with the outs and runners he ended up with - which makes me damn sure it wasn't adjudicated properly.
So, I agree. We disagree.

JJ

You should ding yourself if you approach another umpire without being asked. Rules 9.02 (b) and (c) say it. Especially (b) specifically identifying the manager to appeal the play in question. If he doesn't, umpires don't either. Each have their own area to take care of. Your partner deserves more respect for handling his own situations than you seem to be willing to give him.

He may have missed that rule. But, you will have missed both of these rules. 2 screw ups on one play is not good at all. That makes a bad crew all around.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

You should ding yourself if you approach another umpire without being asked. Rules 9.02 (b) and (c) say it. Especially (b) specifically identifying the manager to appeal the play in question. If he doesn't, umpires don't either. Each have their own area to take care of. Your partner deserves more respect for handling his own situations than you seem to be willing to give him.

He may have missed that rule. But, you will have missed both of these rules. 2 screw ups on one play is not good at all. That makes a bad crew all around.

GA is right on here.

MLB Rule 9.02
(b) If there is reasonable doubt that any umpire’s decision may be in conflict with the rules, the manager may appeal the decision and ask that a correct ruling be made. Such appeal shall be made only to the umpire who made the protested decision. (c) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it. If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the initial call, disregarding interference or obstruction that may have occurred on the play; failures of runners to tag up based upon the initial call on the field; runners passing other runners or missing bases; etc., all in the discretion of the umpires. No player, manager or coach shall be permitted to argue the exercise of the umpires’ disscretion in