Twins v Nationals home run call reversed

[Dakota]

I have a question about MLB umpire protocol in changing a call. The situation is from yesterday's game between the Twins and the Nationals. The Nationals batter hit a fly ball that went into the right field upper deck. It was above the foul pole as it cleared the outfield fence.

U1 (Kulpa) ruled it fair and a home run. The following is from the press report on the game.

"Gardenhire (Twins manager) talked with Kulpa and asked him to confer with his colleagues about the call.

Kulpa did, and the crew voted 3-1 to overturn Kulpa's ruling. The two-run homer was called off. Guzman returned to second and Young to the batter's box with a 1-2 count. ...

Crew chief Dale Scott, who was manning second base, said he and the umpires at home (Dan Iassogna) and third (Paul Emmel) thought Young's blast was foul.

"These foul poles don't go all the way up, and this was over the pole," Scott said. "So that makes it a lot tougher to try to judge where it was when it left the park. The key for us is, when you have a disputed thing like that, is to get together and make sure we're all on the same page. Obviously Ron (Kulpa) had it fair, but if we had it definitely foul, we're going to flip it."

Recognizing this account is from a sports reporter for the St. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper, is this explanation proper MLB umpire protocol for changing a call like this?

[LMan]

9.04(c)

(c) If different decisions should be made on one play by different umpires, the umpire-in-chief shall call all the umpires into consultation, with no manager or player present. After consultation, the umpire-in-chief (unless another umpire may have been designated by the league president) shall determine which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made.


Instant replay on fair/foul calls (MLB) is on the horizon.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by LMan

Instant replay on fair/foul calls (MLB) is on the horizon.

Or perhaps: just around the corner.

[Tim C]

Or just around (over) the foul pole.

Regards

[DG]

So the umpire with the best view of a fly ball above the foul pole in RF, the 1B guy, was overruled by views from 2b and 3b. The PU is the only other guy with an angle on this so at best it should have been 1-1.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

So the umpire with the best view of a fly ball above the foul pole in RF, the 1B guy, was overruled by views from 2b and 3b. The PU is the only other guy with an angle on this so at best it should have been 1-1.

There are balls that U2 and U3 will see better - namely those that are foul and they can clearly see the pole between themselves and the ball. It's the reason now that ALL umpires at that level are instructed to watch the ball on an obvious ball leaving the yard.

[mick]

Originally Posted by DG

So the umpire with the best view of a fly ball above the foul pole in RF, the 1B guy, was overruled by views from 2b and 3b. The PU is the only other guy with an angle on this so at best it should have been 1-1.

Yeah.
They triangulated for the location.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by DG

So the umpire with the best view of a fly ball above the foul pole in RF, the 1B guy, was overruled by views from 2b and 3b. The PU is the only other guy with an angle on this so at best it should have been 1-1.

Maybe the guy with the lowest sleeve number won.

[tibear]

Is this not a judgement call for which U1 is responsible?
Since when do you have a conference to discuss a judgement call?
Do they all get together to discuss a judgement call on a throw out at first on a bang-bang play??

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

Is this not a judgement call for which U1 is responsible?
Since when do you have a conference to discuss a judgement call?
Do they all get together to discuss a judgement call on a throw out at first on a bang-bang play??

Yes.

On fair / foul home runs they get together much of the time (there's a list somewhere of the times they get together -- NCAA has a similar list). And, as posted before, U2 / U3 often have a better view.

No -- this is not one of the times listed (but you knew that).

See, coaches hear "we can discuss 'this call' " and expand that to expect us to discuss "all calls." You hear "we can't discuss 'this call' " and expand that to not want to discuss any calls. Different calls / different plays, different mechanics.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes.

On fair / foul home runs they get together much of the time (there's a list somewhere of the times they get together -- NCAA has a similar list). And, as posted before, U2 / U3 often have a better view.

No -- this is not one of the times listed (but you knew that).

See, coaches hear "we can discuss 'this call' " and expand that to expect us to discuss "all calls." You hear "we can't discuss 'this call' " and expand that to not want to discuss any calls. Different calls / different plays, different mechanics.

I understand what your saying.

I agree that the umpire responsible to make the judgement call has the right to consult before making his call. However, if that umpire is 100% sure of his call, why should someone else have the authority to overrule him?

Just makes the umpires seem incompetent. In this situation, you have a guy sitting right on the foul line and the crew is saying that he couldn't make the call even though he should have been in the perfect position. Certainly diminishes the level of respect he will get on any future call he makes.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

I understand what your saying.

I agree that the umpire responsible to make the judgement call has the right to consult before making his call. However, if that umpire is 100% sure of his call, why should someone else have the authority to overrule him?

Just makes the umpires seem incompetent. In this situation, you have a guy sitting right on the foul line and the crew is saying that he couldn't make the call even though he should have been in the perfect position. Certainly diminishes the level of respect he will get on any future call he makes.

1) No one "overruled" him.

2) As I've said before, it isn't always the perfect position. We lose our depth perception at something like 20'. We depend on other clues to help us determine which of two objects is farther away. When one object is traveling at 100 mph (or so) and crosses above another object, it's virtually impossible to tell.