Why is the ruling on this move being changed?

[Achu]

BlackBerry: Bold Plays | STL@PHI: Papelbon picks off Beltran to earn the save - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Hey everybody. Just wondering if there has been an official statement regarding why this move is becoming a balk next year in OBR. (RHP, step to third, look to or throw to first)

Is it a speed-of-game issue? I have never umpired at a level where this is common or even allowed, so, I'm not quite sure what the rationale would be. In my opinion it can be an effective psychological tool (or clue). Sorry if this has been widely discussed as I'm sure all rule changes are, but I couldn't find anything while searching.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Achu

BlackBerry: Bold Plays | STL@PHI: Papelbon picks off Beltran to earn the save - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Hey everybody. Just wondering if there has been an official statement regarding why this move is becoming a balk next year in OBR. (RHP, step to third, look to or throw to first)

Is it a speed-of-game issue? I have never umpired at a level where this is common or even allowed, so, I'm not quite sure what the rationale would be. In my opinion it can be an effective psychological tool (or clue). Sorry if this has been widely discussed as I'm sure all rule changes are, but I couldn't find anything while searching.

I know announcers have been complaining that this should be a balk for years, because it "deceives" the runners.

Which is why it always works, right?

Rita

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Achu

BlackBerry: Bold Plays | STL@PHI: Papelbon picks off Beltran to earn the save - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Hey everybody. Just wondering if there has been an official statement regarding why this move is becoming a balk next year in OBR. (RHP, step to third, look to or throw to first)

Is it a speed-of-game issue? I have never umpired at a level where this is common or even allowed, so, I'm not quite sure what the rationale would be. In my opinion it can be an effective psychological tool (or clue). Sorry if this has been widely discussed as I'm sure all rule changes are, but I couldn't find anything while searching.

First of all, everything I have read has used the word "maybe", so that doesn't mean it definetly is.

Now , What the heck are you talking about? I have to question what level you have umpired at because, this is a common as "Ball or Strike" at all games above LL level.

"it can be an effective psychological tool"

What does that mean? This is Baseball were discussing.

Here is a quote about this move that shows the type of brillance we are dealing with here.

"I think they should get rid of it," Yankees reliever Boone Logan said. "Us lefties can't do that. If we do, they call a balk."

About the only reason I can think of, of why they want to eliminate this is, it shows up the intelligence of some of ther players. The clip already proves that it still works in the game. I don't see why they want to eliminate it but, it's their League.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by jicecone

..."I think they should get rid of it," Yankees reliever Boone Logan said. "Us lefties can't do that. If we do, they call a balk."

Unless I am missing something, a left-handed pitcher can step toward third fake a throw there, disengage the rubber, and throw to first. Now it would look silly and I have never seen it. But there is no rule precluding a lefty from doing a third-to-first move.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

Unless I am missing something, a left-handed pitcher can step toward third fake a throw there, disengage the rubber, and throw to first. Now it would look silly and I have never seen it. But there is no rule precluding a lefty from doing a third-to-first move.

Yeah, he left that part out... what he really meant was...

"We lefties can't do that very well and look foolish when we try".

[Achu]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Now , What the heck are you talking about? I have to question what level you have umpired at because, this is a common as "Ball or Strike" at all games above LL level.

"it can be an effective psychological tool"

What does that mean? This is Baseball were discussing.

Question away. I volunteer as a Little League umpire in a small Maine town where many parents can't even afford gloves for their kids. I don't get paid and I'm at this forum because I'm trying to learn how to be as good as I can. I was just curious about the rule change.

As is the case with lazy pickoff throws and any check on a runner, it is a way of letting the runner know the pitcher is paying attention. That's all I meant. Thanks for the reply.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Achu

Hey everybody. Just wondering if there has been an official statement regarding why this move is becoming a balk next year in OBR. (RHP, step to third, look to or throw to first)

Is it a speed-of-game issue?

1. No official statement AFAIK.

2. No, I believe that it's an attempt to rebalance the rules to favor runners a tiny bit. This happens every so often with OBR.

FWIW, it seemed to me that Papelbon balked in the video you posted, and not in the way you're asking about.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yeah, he left that part out... what he really meant was...

"We lefties can't do that very well and look foolish when we try".

Actually, I think he was complaining that lefties aren't allowed to do the fake-to-first-throw-to-third move, essentially mirroring the righty move.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Actually, I think he was complaining that lefties aren't allowed to do the fake-to-first-throw-to-third move, essentially mirroring the righty move.

Ya think?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Achu

Question away. I volunteer as a Little League umpire in a small Maine town where many parents can't even afford gloves for their kids. I don't get paid and I'm at this forum because I'm trying to learn how to be as good as I can. I was just curious about the rule change.

As is the case with lazy pickoff throws and any check on a runner, it is a way of letting the runner know the pitcher is paying attention. That's all I meant. Thanks for the reply.

The goal of the pitcher is to catch the runner taking some extra lead when he initially thinks the ball is going to third, and then fire back to catch him too far off or leaning. It VERY rarely works, and often gets boo'ed at MLB parks.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Actually, I think he was complaining that lefties aren't allowed to do the fake-to-first-throw-to-third move, essentially mirroring the righty move.

And neither are rightys.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by mbyron

1. No official statement AFAIK.

2. No, I believe that it's an attempt to rebalance the rules to favor runners a tiny bit. This happens every so often with OBR.

FWIW, it seemed to me that Papelbon balked in the video you posted, and not in the way you're asking about.

I had a balk on the play as well. Possibly for two reasons.

One - Looked like the free foot crossed the back plane of the rubber. (maybe)

Two - Also looked like he may have started to rotate toward home rather than step directly toward third. (or more to home than third).

Tim.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I had a balk on the play as well. Possibly for two reasons.

One - Looked like the free foot crossed the back plane of the rubber. (maybe)

Two - Also looked like he may have started to rotate toward home rather than step directly toward third. (or more to home than third).

Tim.

No way on either.

1. whole foot has to cross whole rubber, not even close. (see below and thanks to mbyron for updating me on this one). I still don't see him breaking the back edge here.

2. everything went towards third.

No way this is a balk.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

1. whole foot has to cross whole rubber, not even close.

Tony, that's the FED rule (6-2-4f).

OBR 8.05a COMMENT is usually interpreted as any part of the foot.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Tony, that's the FED rule (6-2-4f).

OBR 8.05a COMMENT is usually interpreted as any part of the foot.

I don't think that is what 8.05a says. Maybe I'm getting old and fuzzy headed but I remember as a cadet at the Academy being told that it was the whole foot past the whole rubber.

I stand corrected I just found MLBUM 7.5(c).

NCAA is explicit about it in 9-1-b (3)

When the pitcher starts the delivery from the set position and the entire free foot or any part of the stride leg breaks the plane of theback edge of the pitcher’s rubber, the pitcher is committed to throwor feint a motion toward second base or pitch to home plate.

Thanks for making me look it up, I appreciate it really. Any day I can learn something is a good day!

And I really got to update my PBUC manual. The one I have says in 6.4 (b)

...when he swings his entire foot completely behind the back edge of the rubber.