One rule that I would like to see changed

HogFan · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 13, 2002, 06:47pm

I dont know if you guys have any input on rules or get to make any suggestions, but here is one rule IMO that needs to be looked at.

The timeout rule.... lets say player A on team A is chasing a ball that is going out of bounds off of his team. Player A jumps in the air and catches the ball while going out of bounds in the air he calls time out. He is awarded the time out and Team A keeps the ball.

I think this is one rule that should be changed where as posession has to be established with a foot inbounds to call timeout.....What do you think?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 13, 2002, 06:57pm

The NBA has changed this rule to basibcally what you suggest. I don't really have a problem with it. College and high school teams get fewer time-outs than pro teams do. If a coach is willing to allow a player to burn that TO, then it's his perogoative, IMHO. Quite honestly, I don't see it happen that often. Until the coaches complain about it, it probably won't happen.

HogFan · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 13, 2002, 09:19pm

I have seen this happen a lot here lately and it has been my team that has been doing it. So really Im cutting my own throat by suggesting this. Its happened in almost every game I have seen this year and today was no different.

The reason I would like to see this changed is because it usually negates a good defensive play or a bad offensive play. It just seems to go against the rules of having posession of the basketball.

daves · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 13, 2002, 09:21pm

I think the rule is fine. Why would you punish a team for hustle and quick thinking? What would happen if a player hustled for a ball going out of bounds tossed it back to a teammate? You wouldn't penalize him for that? What if a player with possession was in the air and threw it off an opponent and it went OOB? You wouldn't penalize them for that. As BktBallRef stated, If their coach allows them to burn a time out in that situation, let them.

JB · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 13, 2002, 10:45pm

HogFan - The reason the time-out can be called has to do with a rules definition of "Player Location" which basicly states that the location of a player is determined by where the player was last in contact with the floor or an extension of the floor, such as a bleacher.

So even though a player is airborne and clearly out of bounds we only care where his feet were when he left the floor.

Oz Referee · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 04:23pm

That's why I like FIBA - no timeouts from the floor

Mark Padgett · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 04:34pm

I see absolutely no reason to change this rule. As stated above, there are similar situations that no one ever mentions. What about the player on the floor with the ball who is about to get tied up, requesting a timeout? Are we to judge that we shouldn't grant a timeout if we infer the player is about to commit a turnover or get tied up?

Let's say they change the rule and a player is in the air on his way OOB (you think), requests the TO and you don't give it to him and he then, somehow, lands inbounds. Is this any different than a player who catches the ball in the air in the middle of the court and requests one while airborne?

What about a player who is one second away from a five second inbound violation? Actually, this used to be a rule a long time ago and was changed, thank goodness.

In order to be consistent in the rule, you'd have to change the rule so it covered every possible situation in which it appears a player is about to commit a turnover. That would be not only impossible to do, but ridiculous.

Actually - the defining point for me is if a player is willing to accept burning a timeout to avoid a turnover, that's his decision.

Now - if you really want to change an inequitable rule, let's talk once again about changing the loss of possession penalty on technical fouls. Oh wait - I've been advocating for this for many years and it's still there. Never mind.

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Now - if you really want to change an inequitable rule, let's talk once again about changing the loss of possession penalty on technical fouls. Oh wait - I've been advocating for this for many years and it's still there. Never mind.

I'm willing to bet that it's coming, Mark. As I'm sure you know, NCAA has gone to this rule. It makes sense and it works well, in my opinion. I think it will come.

Chuck

crew · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 05:08pm

one rule i would like to see dissolve is the tech for improper numbers inthe scorebook. to start the game off with 2 shots and the ball, to me is ridiculous. those numbers have nothing to do with the actual game(on court). sometimes people make mistakess when processing the info and the penalty is significant. but this is my personal opinion.

Oz Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 06:19pm

Scrap the AP - this is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of. It doesn't award good defence and is the only part of the rules where skill has absoutely nothing to do with who gets the ball.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 06:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Scrap the AP - this is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of. It doesn't award good defence and is the only part of the rules where skill has absoutely nothing to do with who gets the ball.

This is what I have been saying for years. FIBA and NBA/WNBA do it correctly. Jump balls for all held ball and situations where a jump ball is required.

Oz Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 06:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Scrap the AP - this is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of. It doesn't award good defence and is the only part of the rules where skill has absoutely nothing to do with who gets the ball.

This is what I have been saying for years. FIBA and NBA/WNBA do it correctly. Jump balls for all held ball and situations where a jump ball is required.

Mark, it is not often that you and I agree - but on this one I certainly do. The AP is one of the main reasons that I am glad that I don't referee in the USA. (plus the fact that it is too far to travel

)

crew · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 07:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Scrap the AP - this is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of. It doesn't award good defence and is the only part of the rules where skill has absoutely nothing to do with who gets the ball.

i agree scrap it for mens ball(highschool) but thank God for the arrow in womens.

daves · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Scrap the AP - this is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of. It doesn't award good defence and is the only part of the rules where skill has absoutely nothing to do with who gets the ball.

This is what I have been saying for years. FIBA and NBA/WNBA do it correctly. Jump balls for all held ball and situations where a jump ball is required.

I disagree. Keep the AP, especially in women's ball. I have a bad rotator cuff and don't want to be tossing the ball up 30 or 40 times a game. Let's scrap the jump ball all together. Let's start the game and every extra period with a coin toss or rock, paper and scissors.

Oz Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 14, 2002, 08:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by daves

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Scrap the AP - this is the most ridiculous rule I have ever heard of. It doesn't award good defence and is the only part of the rules where skill has absoutely nothing to do with who gets the ball.

This is what I have been saying for years. FIBA and NBA/WNBA do it correctly. Jump balls for all held ball and situations where a jump ball is required.

I disagree. Keep the AP, especially in women's ball. I have a bad rotator cuff and don't want to be tossing the ball up 30 or 40 times a game. Let's scrap the jump ball all together. Let's start the game and every extra period with a coin toss or rock, paper and scissors.

Pleaseeeeeeee tell me you're being sarcastic - the rules should change because you have an injury that hinders your ability to do the job properly...maybe it's time to retire?

I referee FIBA, at all levels from Under 12 girls, up to and including State League Mens (2 divisions under our pro-league). It is very rare for me to have a game with more than a dozen jump balls (in the kiddy leagues) and maybe 4 in the senior comps. So that means during any one game I will, on average administer between 2 and 8 jump balls. If that's too hard...see above comment.