Hand to mouth, FED

[Rita C]

I found this in my 2002 high school rule book.

6-2-1 Illegal acts include bringing the pitching hand in contact with the mouth without distinctly wiping off the pitching hand before it touches the ball.

6-2-1 Penalty: for defacing the ball (a-e) the ball is dead immediately. The umpire may eject the pitcher. If such defaced ball is pitched and then detected, it is an illegal pitch.

6-2-4c balk if making an illegal pitch from any position.

But (assuming it hasn't changed in the last ten years) it isn't an illegal pitch unless the ball is PITCHED! So just going to the mouth shouldn't be a balk?

I bring this up because this was apparently miscalled in a Senior Little League World Series game. Little League uses OBR so the infraction should have been penalized by a ball to the batter. Unfortunately, the umpires ruled by "high school rules".

But did they? or has the penalty changed since 2002?

Rita

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I found this in my 2002 high school rule book.

6-2-1 Illegal acts include bringing the pitching hand in contact with the mouth without distinctly wiping off the pitching hand before it touches the ball.

6-2-1 Penalty: for defacing the ball (a-e) the ball is dead immediately. The umpire may eject the pitcher. If such defaced ball is pitched and then detected, it is an illegal pitch.

6-2-4c balk if making an illegal pitch from any position.

But (assuming it hasn't changed in the last ten years) it isn't an illegal pitch unless the ball is PITCHED! So just going to the mouth shouldn't be a balk?

I bring this up because this was apparently miscalled in a Senior Little League World Series game. Little League uses OBR so the infraction should have been penalized by a ball to the batter. Unfortunately, the umpires ruled by "high school rules".

But did they? or has the penalty changed since 2002?

Rita

Here's what you're looking for from 2012 NFHS rules, Rita.

For infraction (e), a ball shall be awarded each time
a pitcher violates this rule and subsequently engages the pitching plate.

Without a pitch it should have been ruled a ball. Unless F1 went to his mouth after coming set.


Tim.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Here's what you're looking for from 2012 NFHS rules, Rita.

For infraction (e), a ball shall be awarded each time
a pitcher violates this rule and subsequently engages the pitching plate.

Without a pitch it should have been ruled a ball. Unless F1 went to his mouth after coming set.


Tim.

Even with runners on?

Rita

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Even with runners on?

Rita

I think there's a case play that says going to the mouth with runners on base while in contact is to be ruled a balk.

Tim.

[cookie]

Tim: "I think there's a case play that says going to the mouth with runners on base while in contact is to be ruled a balk."

2011 FED Casebook
6.1.3 SITUATION O: With R1 at third and R2 at first, F1 is in contact with the pitcher’s plate but has not yet come set. He brings his pitching hand to his mouth and distinctly wipes it off. RULING: Balk, award R1 home and R2 second. The pitcher cannot bring his hand to his mouth because the pitcher is required to go to the set position without interruption and in one continuous motion.

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by Rita C

But (assuming it hasn't changed in the last ten years) it isn't an illegal pitch unless the ball is PITCHED!

NFHS 2-18 defines an illegal “pitch” as an illegal “act.” No pitch is required. If F1 commits the illegal act at 6-2-1e, the violation is penalized in one of three ways:

1. Ball, if committed with a live ball while not in contact an subsequently comes in contact; or,
2. Ball, if committed with a live ball while in contact with no runner/s on base; or,
3. Balk, if committed with a live ball while in contact with runner/s on base; or,

By the way, the “act” is ruled nothing if committed with a live ball while F1 is not in contact and subsequently the status of the ball is declared dead before F1 comes in contact.

[umpjim]

"I bring this up because this was apparently miscalled in a Senior Little League World Series game. Little League uses OBR so the infraction should have been penalized by a ball to the batter. Unfortunately, the umpires ruled by "high school rules"."

LL allows protests so was there one if the umps ruled it a 8.02(a)(1) violation which is always a ball penalty.
If the umps ruled it an 8.02(a)(2 thru 6) violation with runners on it would be a balk. You would know if they called that one because the pitcher would be ejected.

Shame if they were using FED at that level. If so the current case play calls it a balk if F1 was on the rubber with runners on. That case play is at odds with another one that allows hat adjustment and other moves prior to coming set.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Shame if they were using FED at that level.

My guess is that the umpires in this game do a lot of FED ball, and just confused the rule. Although I'm surprised that all four of them brain-farted on it, since the PU who made the initial balk call conferenced with his partners after the manager complained.

As far as I know, the manager did not formally protest.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I think there's a case play that says going to the mouth with runners on base while in contact is to be ruled a balk.

Tim.

You're wrong, but hey isn't that your modus operadi.

All the best!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

You're wrong, but hey isn't that your modus operadi.

All the best!

Except that for NFHS rules, he's exactly right.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by umpjim

"I bring this up because this was apparently miscalled in a Senior Little League World Series game. Little League uses OBR so the infraction should have been penalized by a ball to the batter. Unfortunately, the umpires ruled by "high school rules"."

LL allows protests so was there one if the umps ruled it a 8.02(a)(1) violation which is always a ball penalty.
If the umps ruled it an 8.02(a)(2 thru 6) violation with runners on it would be a balk. You would know if they called that one because the pitcher would be ejected.

Shame if they were using FED at that level. If so the current case play calls it a balk if F1 was on the rubber with runners on. That case play is at odds with another one that allows hat adjustment and other moves prior to coming set.

I'm a little confused with your answer. It is never a balk in OBR (LL included) baseball.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Except that for NFHS rules, he's exactly right.

Going to your mouth is not a balk. He didn't mention anything about wiping his hand.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Going to your mouth is not a balk. He didn't mention anything about wiping his hand.

Did you read cookie's post, Jeff....er, I mean Steven?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I'm a little confused with your answer. It is never a balk in OBR (LL included) baseball.

If you read the cites I agree going to your mouth is never a balk in OBR and shouldn't be in FED but unfortunately due to the casebook and some approved rulings in FED it is if you have a runner and the pitcher is on the rubber.
I was trying to give the involved umps a way out with the 8.02(a)(2 thru 6)rule which does allow a balk but also requires an ejection. I don't think that is what happened here but who knows.
If they were using FED rules here they were remiss. Even in our District umpire briefs we cover those specific differences (We do mostly HS). We even cover the LGB failure to update to the OBR rule concerning going to the mouth on the dirt. We call it like OBR and tell them that if they go furthor it might be called one way or the other. Find out how they will call it. Since MLB changed the rule to avoid the waste of time that the pitcher would spend walking down to the grass I don't think anybody would mind if it was called that way even if LL did not pick up on the change.
But apparantely, at the LL SBBWS, the umps did not only know the difference between the LGB and OBR, they did not know that FED was different from both.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by umpjim

If you read the cites I agree going to your mouth is never a balk in OBR and shouldn't be in FED but unfortunately due to the casebook and some approved rulings in FED it is if you have a runner and the pitcher is on the rubber.
I was trying to give the involved umps a way out with the 8.02(a)(2 thru 6)rule which does allow a balk but also requires an ejection. I don't think that is what happened here but who knows.

Excuse me but you did it again. At one point you say it is never a balk, and then you say rule 8.02(a) allows it.

Please show me what part EVER says that a balk is allowed. I don't see it.

All I see is a ball being called and an ejection if the pitcher persists.

Rita