Hand to mouth, FED

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Going to your mouth is not a balk. He didn't mention anything about wiping his hand.

Case play 6.1.3 Situation O. I don't get why people, especially Rita who's been presented this case play multiple times, are still arguing that it's not a balk. If the pitcher is engaged with the pitching plate and goes to his mouth with runners on, it most certainly is. The case play defines that result.

You, on the other hand, are simply trolling.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Excuse me but you did it again. At one point you say it is never a balk, and then you say rule 8.02(a) allows it.

Please show me what part EVER says that a balk is allowed. I don't see it.

All I see is a ball being called and an ejection if the pitcher persists.

Rita

8.02(a)(1), going to your mouth improperly, is never a balk in OBR.
8.02(a)(2), expectorating on the ball, hand or glove, is a balk with runners on. Edited to add: The balk penalty is in the Penalty paragraph (d) further on in the chapter. Edited to add further: I see the problem. The LGB does not read the same way. My penalty is from the MLB OBR.

Regarding FED the quoted case play makes it a balk because it is the start of coming set and is stopped. I'm not happy that that is the way they want it called. They have another case play that allows hat adjustment and other arm motions without it being a balk. That case play actually called those things a balk several years ago. Then one year it was quietly reversed to no balk. I hope they do the same thing with the hand to mouth case play.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

Case play 6.1.3 Situation O. I don't get why people, especially Rita who's been presented this case play multiple times, are still arguing that it's not a balk. If the pitcher is engaged with the pitching plate and goes to his mouth with runners on, it most certainly is. The case play defines that result.

You, on the other hand, are simply trolling.

Only if the pitcher stops his motion to come to a stop/set position.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Only if the pitcher stops his motion to come to a stop/set position.

How can he go to his mouth and not interupt coming set? Even you cannot be this obtuse....

Brother, Group ~

Rita is contending that it's not a balk in OBR. I'm sure she understands now that it's a balk in FED.......................

Tim.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by umpjim

8.02(a)(1), going to your mouth improperly, is never a balk in OBR.
8.02(a)(2), expectorating on the ball, hand or glove, is a balk with runners on. Edited to add: The balk penalty is in the Penalty paragraph (d) further on in the chapter. Edited to add further: I see the problem. The LGB does not read the same way. My penalty is from the MLB OBR.

Interesting. I looked it up in my 2011 MLB OBR pdf and there it is:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02 (a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be
suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the
automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.
(b) If a play follows the violation called by the umpire, the manager of the
team at bat may advise the umpire-in-chief that he elects to accept the
play. Such election shall be made immediately at the end of the play.
However, if the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls,
a hit batsman, or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before
advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to
the violation.
(c) Even though the team at bat elects to take the play, the violation shall be recognized and the penalties in subsection (a) will still be in effect.
(d) If the manager of the team at bat does not elect to accept the play, the
umpire-in-chief shall call an automatic ball and, if there are any runners
on base, a balk.

However, this is new! I have the 2001 copy, which is what I first read, four times through, before I became an umpire. It says:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of this rule 8.02 (a) (2 to 6) the umpire shall:
(a) Call the pitch a ball, warn the pitcher and have announced on the public address system the reason for the action.
(b) In the case of a second offense by the same pitcher in the same game, the pitcher shall be disqualified from the game.

(c) If a play follows the violation called by the umpire, the manager of the offense may advise the plate umpire that he elects to accept the play. Such election shall be made immediately at the end of the play. However, if the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batsman, or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation.
(d) Even though the offense elects to take the play, the violation shall be recognized and the penalties in (a) and (b) will still be in effect.

So MLB changed. And this is one change Little League hasn't yet chosen to follow.

It is also interesting that it is a balk only IF THERE IS A PLAY and the manager declines to accept the play.

Thank you for helping clear that up.

Rita

[Steven Tyler]

Little League does not call balks, so that is the biggest difference.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Little League does not call balks, so that is the biggest difference.

It does in the upper divisions. 13-18 year olds. And will in the 50/70 I think.

Rita

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Little League does not call balks, so that is the biggest difference.

They do in the division that inspired this thread, Senior League. They also do in Junior League and Big League. So 3 of the 4 baseball divisions that have a World Series have balks.

Try again.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

How can he go to his mouth and not interupt coming set? Even you cannot be this obtuse....


Tim.

Was the part about continuous motion too confusing for you?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

They do in the division that inspired this thread, Senior League. They also do in Junior League and Big League. So 3 of the 4 baseball divisions that have a World Series have balks.

Try again.

I am aware. No need to be snarky.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I am aware. No need to be snarky.

You didn't seem to be aware when you responded to my post.

And you are a master of being snarky yourself.

Or are you only telling the "truth" when you speak?

Rita

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Rita C

You didn't seem to be aware when you responded to my post.

And you are a master of being snarky yourself.

Or are you only telling the "truth" when you speak?

Rita

FYI-I didn't respond to your post, or I would have quoted it in some fashion. It was a statement.

The OP went from Senior Little League to FED.

I will try to paint with a broader brush next time.

All the best.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

FYI-I didn't respond to your post, or I would have quoted it in some fashion. It was a statement.

The OP went from Senior Little League to FED.

I will try to paint with a broader brush next time.

All the best.

And yet Senior Little League has balks, so why did your post even show up here?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Was the part about continuous motion too confusing for you?

No part of it. I get it. You said that going to the mouth with runners on is only a balk if he stops his motion to come set. My point to you, which you obviously missed, was that you're stating the obvious for no reason. Because a pitcher OBVIOUSLY cannot go to his mouth and NOT interupt his motion to come set.


Tim.