Ejection

[tankmjg24]

High School Varsity game. R1 attempts to steal second and is tagged out on a very close play. He slid head first to the back side of the bag and was tagged right on the hand as he was arriving at the base. Upon me signaling an out he gets up on his knees and outstretches his arms and says "Are you kidding me" followed by a "that's bullsh*t". I eject him at this point. The player begins asking what he did wrong and that he was talking to the shortstop and not me. His comments were loud enough that I could easily hear them and in no doubt directed towards me in my opinion. The first base coach who is the assistant wants an explanation. I begin to explain to him and before I can the head coach has come over from the third base box. I was starting to get somewhat double teamed so I backed off the assistant at this point and only spoke to the head coach. I explained to the head coach my reasoning and all he kept saying was that his player was not talking to me but the shortstop as they play on the same travel team and are good friends and that I was too quick to eject and should have gave a warning. Things eventually simmer down and the game continues.

Fast-forward an inning and in between innings the head coach comes back over to me as he wants to explain the whole story as he says. He starts with that I was too quick on the ejection and that the shortstop said bull**** first because even he thought the runner was safe. I told him we were not going to discuss it and his reply was that if I was going to have rabbit ears that I should at least be able to hear the other team too. I again tell him that we are not going to discuss it further and he goes back to his dugout saying that he just wanted me to know the entire story.

So now that story time is over, I have four questions. 1st, do you all thing that I was too quick to eject and should have instead gave a warning? 2nd, would you have ignored the assistant coach and waited on the head coach or would you have tried to explain as I did. 3rd, when the coach came out in between innings would you have ejected him for his comments or how would you have handled the situation. 4th, when explaining to the coach what his player said, would you have used the actual phrase? The two things I was taught to never do was curse or be out of uniform. I repeated what the player said as to me this was the easiest way to explain.

Thoughts and thanks.

[dash_riprock]

1. I think the EJ was appropriate for HS. You could have issued a warning, but it is not required. 3-3-1-g-2

2. Tell the asst. coach to get back in his box. He is not allowed to leave the box to argue a judgement call. 3-3-1-g-6

3. I think you handled it fine. He went away. Mission accomplished.

4. No need to repeat it. The coach obviously heard it anyway. Put it in your EJ report however, word-for-word.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

Fast-forward an inning and in between innings the head coach comes back over to me as he wants to explain the whole story as he says. He starts with that I was too quick on the ejection and that the shortstop said bull**** first because even he thought the runner was safe.

He's done. Bringing up an argument from the past is an ejection.

I told him we were not going to discuss it and his reply was that if I was going to have rabbit ears that I should at least be able to hear the other team too.

Really? He's still in the game?

[mbyron]

Good EJ. Don't fall for the old "not talking to you" BS. Profanity is prohibited, no matter who it's aimed at.

Agree with what the others have said.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

High School Varsity game. R1 attempts to steal second and is tagged out on a very close play. He slid head first to the back side of the bag and was tagged right on the hand as he was arriving at the base. Upon me signaling an out he gets up on his knees and outstretches his arms and says "Are you kidding me" followed by a "that's bullsh*t". I eject him at this point. The player begins asking what he did wrong and that he was talking to the shortstop and not me. His comments were loud enough that I could easily hear them and in no doubt directed towards me in my opinion. The first base coach who is the assistant wants an explanation. I begin to explain to him and before I can the head coach has come over from the third base box. I was starting to get somewhat double teamed so I backed off the assistant at this point and only spoke to the head coach. I explained to the head coach my reasoning and all he kept saying was that his player was not talking to me but the shortstop as they play on the same travel team and are good friends and that I was too quick to eject and should have gave a warning. Things eventually simmer down and the game continues.

Fast-forward an inning and in between innings the head coach comes back over to me as he wants to explain the whole story as he says. He starts with that I was too quick on the ejection and that the shortstop said bull**** first because even he thought the runner was safe. I told him we were not going to discuss it and his reply was that if I was going to have rabbit ears that I should at least be able to hear the other team too. I again tell him that we are not going to discuss it further and he goes back to his dugout saying that he just wanted me to know the entire story.

So now that story time is over, I have four questions. 1st, do you all thing that I was too quick to eject and should have instead gave a warning? 2nd, would you have ignored the assistant coach and waited on the head coach or would you have tried to explain as I did. 3rd, when the coach came out in between innings would you have ejected him for his comments or how would you have handled the situation. 4th, when explaining to the coach what his player said, would you have used the actual phrase? The two things I was taught to never do was curse or be out of uniform. I repeated what the player said as to me this was the easiest way to explain.

Thoughts and thanks.

Like Dash said, good EJ on the runner, and you should have sent the water boy, er, assistant coach back to his little box, as he had no business approaching you about a judgment call. I differ from Dash, and side with Mr. Umpire, in that the coach returned to "tell you the whole story" (my a$$) and then made some crap up to try to cover his mouthy player's a$$. That would have at the least put him on the short list for leaving. Then, he called you rabbit ears, at which time he should have been sent packing. He is saying that you shouldn't hear a clearly audible remark directed in your general direction. That's not rabbit ears, that's called listening. Rabbit ears is when you react to general grousing and dugout banter and let it affect you, not when you are being cursed. Since when do these punk high school kids get away with swearing? I would have been ejected when I played, and then my dad would have beat my a$$ good when I got home. Kids nowadays.

[tankmjg24]

It seems to me as if coaches and players are getting more bold as the years go along. I have a theory on why but there is not enough time in a day to get into it haha.

I personally had no second guesses on the ejection and felt as if I gave the coaches a longer leash than I should have. After ejecting a player my thought process was if I ignored the assistants request then I would look like a jerk and I did not eject the head coach cause I thought that it would cause a big uproar and things had just calmed down. I know that coaches are going to back their players but I was sadly surprised when the coach tried to defend his players actions. When I played if myself or any of my teammates did this we would have been benched rather quickly. My parents would not have been pleased with me either.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I differ from Dash, and side with Mr. Umpire, in that the coach returned to "tell you the whole story" (my a$$) and then made some crap up to try to cover his mouthy player's a$$. That would have at the least put him on the short list for leaving. Then, he called you rabbit ears, at which time he should have been sent packing

I don't have a problem with you dumping the HC if that's the way you want to handle it. I would too if he came out ranting and raving, but the OP did not suggest that, at least to me. I took it to be more of a conversation - in a normal tone - between innings. I am also not overly offended by the "rabbit ears" comment, especially when the HC heard it too, and he was 100+ feet farther away. Now if it was yelled at me and everyone else heard it, then I would get rid of him. Otherwise, I would just walk away and ignore. In this case, that is the quickest way to get back to baseball. If he continued after me, then he goes, but I did not infer that from the OP.

[stratref]

Personally, as soon as the assistant coach starts arguing or really saying anything after leaving his box he and his head coach are benched.
I am not really a fan of benching normally but in this case this is explicatly supported by rule.
Plus the head coaches second discussion would have gone, "Can we talk about that play where you dumped my player?", "No" as I turn and find somewhere else to stand until he gets the hint that discussion during the game is not going to happen. Plus the rabbit ears comment gets him close to the boot all on its own, it is a dirrect comment on your judgement and integrity. Boot him and get a coach who wants to coach and not argue with you about a player who no longer is in the current game.

Jasper

[Rich]

I would've cut the coach off, said "That's ancient history," and walked away from him. If he follows, it's much easier to eject him if necessary. I'm certainly not going to stand there and listen to his side of the story after he had 2 innings to come up with one.

Rabbit ears? Bye bye.

[tankmjg24]

Yea the coach was just talking in a normal tone each time he came to talk to me. In hind sight I believe he was just frustrated and wanted to come up with an excuse for his player. I have found out that this particular team's next game is against a big rival and that it counts towards seeding for the tournament. The player ejected just so happened to be one of the best on his team and by getting ejected he will not be allowed to play.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

It seems to me as if coaches and players are getting more bold as the years go along.

That's because not enough guys dump them when they need to be dumped.
Your EJ on the player was a no-brainer. The coach should have left as well.

Until they go when they need to go, they'll keep on acting like they do.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by asdf

That's because not enough guys dump them when they need to be dumped.
Your EJ on the player was a no-brainer. The coach should have left as well.

Until they go when they need to go, they'll keep on acting like they do.

Great reply, Sir. I couldn't agree more. Even without the cursing, I think the hands stretched out like that is trying to "show up" the Umpire.
While just for that, I probably wouldn't have tossed him, I would have warned him by saying "Knock it off, if you want to stay in this game!!!"
The swearing just makes it a "no brainer". Otherwise he tries to get away with a little more from the next crew.

[Steven Tyler]

If you're working HS varsity baseball, and you need affirmative on the dumping the base runner, you might be in over your head.

If the head coach thinks you have rabbit ears, and tells you such, you should nip it in bud immediately, or at least restrict him to bench at the very least. He should be discipling his player, not making excuses, and blaming the ejection on you.

Always remember, the less you say, the less you have to account for in an ejection report.

[tankmjg24]

Well the reason I was looking for confirmation was in the review session with the UIC he felt as if I should have gave a team warning first. While backing me on the ejection his response to it was if he was officiating that he would have asked the player what he said and if the player repeated himself or lead on then he would have ejected. If he said nothing then he would have issued a warning and if something happened later he would eject. While not disagreeing with my ejection he felt as if he would have given the player a chance to redeem himself. In my opinion if a player cusses me on a field I am going to eject regardless of the situation though.

[DG]

Good toss, no warning for disrespectively addressing an umpire and if was not he will be more careful next time, but we all know he was.

No tolerance for assistants in my state who want to argue anything. They don't deserve an explanation, only HC can get one if they ask nicely. If asst argues a call restrict him and the HC to the dugout for remainder. That is the rule around here.