dropped 3rd strike

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

others didn't make smart@$$ inferences like, "If you prefer calling "Strike three, batter out." go for it. Do you also alert the batter to a walk by saying, "Ball four, take your base."?"

Wow, you're thick. Did I say they did? Did I say I did? Good god.

Really. You said you like to call the out. Good for you. Others asked why you do that. After reading your smarta$$ comments on this forum, one would think you'd know better than to display thin skin.

Some seem to think that it is acceptable to alert the batter to a D3K. JE may teach it but plenty of the best umpires in the world ignore that advice and call it like I do. If your assignor/partner(s), league. association, team wants you to do it, go for it. I provided an example of a batter walking away after a hard swing, disgusted at the miss he is a step out of the box when you say, "No catch." The ball is on it's way to the backstop, the runner on third is coming home and the batter realizes he has another life, thanks to you. The run scores and he is safe. The defensive coach is now a foot from your face wanting to know why you prompted him. Be sure to have the JE book there to show him.

Meanwhile, on my field, the same thing happens and I have an out once Junior strides away from the dish. I don't feel the need to coach. The offensive coach will be pissed - at his player, for forgetting what to do.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Really. You said you like to call the out. Good for you.

Not sure why I try... maybe I'll stop.

For about the fourth time... no - I did NOT say that. Your propensity for putting words into other peoples mouths might work in your regular life - but it's rather stupid on line, don't you think, considering that the words the other person said are right there for everyone to read.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not sure why I try... maybe I'll stop.

For about the fourth time... no - I did NOT say that. Your propensity for putting words into other peoples mouths might work in your regular life - but it's rather stupid on line, don't you think, considering that the words the other person said are right there for everyone to read.

from mbcrowder post #46 of this thread:

What in the world would be wrong with simply using the word OUT when we have an out... just like every other time that we have an OUT. For some reason, those loftier than me think it's bad form to tell the batter they are out when they are, indeed, out.

The EASY way to fix this messy nonsense with umpires making signals to people that can't see them (Strybel ... why would signalling safe help any player), or having different calls (catch, no catch, NO NO, "ball on the ground!" (Really!?!?!)) etc is to SIMPLY call batters that are out on a caught 3rd strike OUT! If you don't say OUT, they are not out. Easy. Catcher's batters, etc can hear you say OUT, and can react if you don't. (PS - this would also help in the batter running to first to confuse matters with less than 2 outs and a runner on first - saying OUT clearly clears up this sitch too).

You are right, it is difficult to pretend you didn't write something when the words are right there for everyone to read. Thanks for illustrating the point. I feel no need to put words in your mouth.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

from mbcrowder post #46 of this thread:

What in the world would be wrong with simply using the word OUT when we have an out... just like every other time that we have an OUT. For some reason, those loftier than me think it's bad form to tell the batter they are out when they are, indeed, out.

The EASY way to fix this messy nonsense with umpires making signals to people that can't see them (Strybel ... why would signalling safe help any player), or having different calls (catch, no catch, NO NO, "ball on the ground!" (Really!?!?!)) etc is to SIMPLY call batters that are out on a caught 3rd strike OUT! If you don't say OUT, they are not out. Easy. Catcher's batters, etc can hear you say OUT, and can react if you don't. (PS - this would also help in the batter running to first to confuse matters with less than 2 outs and a runner on first - saying OUT clearly clears up this sitch too).

You are right, it is difficult to pretend you didn't write something when the words are right there for everyone to read. Thanks for illustrating the point. I feel no need to put words in your mouth.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Thanks.

I did NOT state that I DO this ... I stated that the powers that be (the people that are telling us the proper and improper mechanics in situations like this) should CHANGE their direction and instead have us actually say OUT when the player is OUT. I stated (at least 4 times) that I currently do what we are told, but that changing what we are told to do would EASILY clear up this admittedly muddy scenario. If that can't penetrate your thick skull, I don't know what can.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Thanks.

I did NOT state that I DO this ... I stated that the powers that be (the people that are telling us the proper and improper mechanics in situations like this) should CHANGE their direction and instead have us actually say OUT when the player is OUT. I stated (at least 4 times) that I currently do what we are told, but that changing what we are told to do would EASILY clear up this admittedly muddy scenario. If that can't penetrate your thick skull, I don't know what can.

Try decaf, please.

From now on, I will assume that when you offer advice on a mechanic it is not something you do, but rather what you believe should be done. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

[Larry1953]

The number of posts in this thread likely exceeds the number of applicable calls in MLB this season :-).

I dunno...from the perspective of just being a fan, it would seem a verbal "no catch" lets both the B/R and F2 know they need to do something without having to turn around and look for PU's pantomime.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Thanks.

I did NOT state that I DO this ... I stated that the powers that be (the people that are telling us the proper and improper mechanics in situations like this) should CHANGE their direction and instead have us actually say OUT when the player is OUT. I stated (at least 4 times) that I currently do what we are told, but that changing what we are told to do would EASILY clear up this admittedly muddy scenario. If that can't penetrate your thick skull, I don't know what can.

Mike,

To me, and I suspect most of the participants on this thread, it was clear that you were not stating that you do this nor recommending that others do it; you were simply questioning why the "powers that be" do not recommend doing so. Because that's what you actually said in your posts.

To me, that's a reasonable question.

My impression, from reading MikeS's posts on this board (as well as other contexts) is that Mike is not what one would call a "careful reader".

He regularly mis-characterizes what other posters have written. I don't believe he does so intentionally, but rather due to "sloppy reading" and an analytic approach that favors eisegesis over exegesis. Regardless, if I were you, I wouldn't let myself be bothered by it.

In person, he's actually a pretty good guy and, from what I've seen, calls a good game.

In terms of "reading recommendations", it's my opinion that he would benefit from a careful read of "Verbal Judo", and fear that he may have 'over-focused" on the "argument" parts of Ms. McMeniman's work, while "glossing over" the sections on inquiry and analysis. That, of course, is just my impression.

JM

[MikeStrybel]

John,
I have never insulted you, privately or on this site. In fact, I have only had good things to say about you to people I umpire with. I am saddened by your recent post.

I have long maintained that one should do whatever their teams, partners, assignors, associations mandate. I think it absurd to verbalize every out call, as mbcrowder suggested. I provided a number of examples where we don't. Further, I do not advocate things that I don't do. If it is sloppy reading to take issue with his opinion as a fix to the situation, so be it. I am content with my education.

The games I saw allowed for the umpire to be heard well. AAA umpires are loud. In a couple instances the exchange between batter and umpire was even audible. The fact that D3Ks were made with an adamant "Swing" or "Yes, he did" prefaced by a right hand point at the plate that was held while stepping back and away, illustrated the mechanic perfectly.