dropped 3rd strike

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I don't see a need to verbalize those things. Your strike call is already verbal, followed by a safe signal to illustrate that the requirement for an out was not completed.

"Catch" and "No catch" sound similar to those wearing helmets. Telling a batter that the ball is on the ground is helping him. His team and coaches will do that.

1) strike calls on swinging strikes are not "already verbal" they are arm signaled only.

2) if anything is verbalized, it would be "no catch." "Catch" would never be verbalized. No Catch only sounds like Catch if the umpire mumbles it under his breath instead of sounding off.

3) why is verbalizing "no catch" any different as far as "helping" than a safe signal? Are we only showing the eight defensive players (who can see it for themselves) that the ball wasn't caught, and the batter and catcher just stand there like idiots?

And yes, Rich, some of the onus IS on the players. After all, they are supposed to be paying attention to the game, and know that when strike 3 has a chance of being uncaught, that as a batter they run and as a catcher they apply a tag. Simple as that. This should take place at about the same time as the umpire is signaling.

The problem is that coaches would rather put the onus on the umpire exclusively, and absolve themselves of having to actually coach their players.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

1) strike calls on swinging strikes are not "already verbal" they are arm signaled only.

I explained already, I envisioned a half swing D3K.

2) if anything is verbalized, it would be "no catch." "Catch" would never be verbalized. No Catch only sounds like Catch if the umpire mumbles it under his breath instead of sounding off.

I agree. I have never stated that I would verbalize either. That is why I wrote that it sounds the same to people wearing helmets.

3) why is verbalizing "no catch" any different as far as "helping" than a safe signal? Are we only showing the eight defensive players (who can see it for themselves) that the ball wasn't caught, and the batter and catcher just stand there like idiots?

Once again, the players have coaches. The safe signal suffices. It was evident in multiple NCAA CWS games this year. Many of those umpires are JEA graduates. They did a great job this year.

Take it easy, Steve.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

That is why I wrote that it sounds the same to people wearing helmets.

No, it only sounds the same if the umpire mumbles the "No" part. Nobody has EVER mistaken my NO catch call for "catch." A lot of emphasis on the NO with an emphatic safe sign. Never had one problem. Why on earth would a player anticipate an umpire saying "catch" anyway? It has been "He's Out" or "No Catch" for years now.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Once again, the players have coaches. The safe signal suffices. It was evident in multiple NCAA CWS games this year. Many of those umpires are JEA graduates. They did a great job this year.

I fail to see what JEA graduates has to do with anything. Very irrelevant. I've worked with JEA grads that couldn't carry my jock to home plate. If you want names, I'll send them to you.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No, it only sounds the same if the umpire mumbles the "No" part. Nobody has EVER mistaken my NO catch call for "catch." A lot of emphasis on the NO with an emphatic safe sign. Never had one problem. Why on earth would a player anticipate an umpire saying "catch" anyway? It has been "He's Out" or "No Catch" for years now.

SDS, you and I aren't far apart on this. I simply replied to the assertion that you can say, "Catch" or "No Catch" as done on fly balls. That will cause trouble and I provided an alternative, "Catch" and "Ball down" that was done by a colleague of mine and since adopted. There is no confusion. I also pointed out that we DO NOT DO THIS for the benefit of the players, rather it is an umpire mechanic to alert our partner(s) to play coverage.

I fail to see what JEA graduates has to do with anything. Very irrelevant. I've worked with JEA grads that couldn't carry my jock to home plate. If you want names, I'll send them to you.

I responded to the assertion that JE teaches this so it must be the only way to do it. A bit of backreading was in order. You are correct, there is disparity between JEA graduates. I don't need names, I know a few.

I wish you well. Fall ball is pretty much mush ball here. Lots of rain and wind - perfect football weather.