LLWS and replay

[THoy]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I've been milling over whether to say this or not, and I hope it's not taken the wrong way, but I don't think John Hosler was up to the task. He looked out of his element.

Tim.

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

[THoy]

Originally Posted by THoy

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

I would work with John Hosler anytime!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by THoy

I would work with John Hosler anytime!

As would I, but that doesn't mean he belonged on the stage LL placed him.

Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by THoy

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

This is why I was hesitant to make the comment about John Hosler. Your defense of the man's umpiring abilities is you speaking with your heart and not your head. The man wasn't good.............period. This isn't a jab at the man's person, or a knock on the effort he put forth. He was there based on his volunteerism alone. Not based on his officiating prowess *combined* with his volunteerism. And as long as LL continues to overlook better, more qualified umpires who have also put in their time to the program, and instead chose to place umpires of John's caliber on national television, they're going to be continually criticized for it.

Tim.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This is why I was hesitant to make the comment about John Hosler. Your defense of the man's umpiring abilities is you speaking with your heart and not your head. The man wasn't good.............period. This isn't a jab at the man's person, or a knock on the effort he put forth. He was there based on his volunteerism alone. Not based on his officiating prowess *combined* with his volunteerism. And as long as LL continues to overlook better, more qualified umpires who have also put in their time to the program, and instead chose to place umpires of John's caliber on national television, they're going to be continually criticized for it.

Tim.

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified? Or John can never work a Series if he cannot improve his skills? First, the LLWS has a ten year waiting list of volunteers ready to do the job. With that being said, LL does not need to change anything in regards to umpire recruitment. There are plenty of training opportunities out there and John has attended. That is the beauty of LL today. The players that cannot make travel teams can play, and those umpires that cannot get assignments can work.

Bottom line, LL is a organization that praises and honors its volunteers. Our payment is those special assignments like the LLWS's. There will always be those who will criticize others abilities or compare their abilities to those who are honored enough to be selected. However, I prefer to compare my abilities to my potential and how close I am to being the umpire I would like to eventually become, rather than criticizing others for giving themselves and their time to a program that honors them.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by THoy

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified? Or John can never work a Series if he cannot improve his skills? First, the LLWS has a ten year waiting list of volunteers ready to do the job. With that being said, LL does not need to change anything in regards to umpire recruitment. There are plenty of training opportunities out there and John has attended. That is the beauty of LL today. The players that cannot make travel teams can play, and those umpires that cannot get assignments can work.

Bottom line, LL is a organization that praises and honors its volunteers. Our payment is those special assignments like the LLWS's. There will always be those who will criticize others abilities or compare their abilities to those who are honored enough to be selected. However, I prefer to compare my abilities to my potential and how close I am to being the umpire I would like to eventually become, rather than criticizing others for giving themselves and their time to a program that honors them.

Honestly, that kind of says it all. Thank you sir.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Honestly, that kind of says it all. Thank you sir.

While I understand Mr. Hoy's post, I'm afraid I disagree with it. Some umpires simply do not have the necessary talent and ability and should not ever be assigned a WS event. An umpire under the current system must get a recommendation at a regional to move on to the next level. In my experience, that recommendation is little more than a rubber stamp.

For some, a state tournament should be a crowning achievement. For others, a Regional. For a few, the LLWS. There are a ton of umpires who work LL in this country. Only a couple get to go each year from a particular region. I'd prefer to see demonstrated umpiring ability be considered at least as much as volunteerism at the WS level.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

While I understand Mr. Hoy's post, I'm afraid I disagree with it. Some umpires simply do not have the necessary talent and ability and should not ever be assigned a WS event. An umpire under the current system must get a recommendation at a regional to move on to the next level. In my experience, that recommendation is little more than a rubber stamp.

For some, a state tournament should be a crowning achievement. For others, a Regional. For a few, the LLWS. There are a ton of umpires who work LL in this country. Only a couple get to go each year from a particular region. I'd prefer to see demonstrated umpiring ability be considered at least as much as volunteerism at the WS level.

I completely agree with you. The sad part is that so many agree with Mr. Hoy ... which speaks volumes.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

While I understand Mr. Hoy's post, I'm afraid I disagree with it. Some umpires simply do not have the necessary talent and ability and should not ever be assigned a WS event. An umpire under the current system must get a recommendation at a regional to move on to the next level. In my experience, that recommendation is little more than a rubber stamp.

For some, a state tournament should be a crowning achievement. For others, a Regional. For a few, the LLWS. There are a ton of umpires who work LL in this country. Only a couple get to go each year from a particular region. I'd prefer to see demonstrated umpiring ability be considered at least as much as volunteerism at the WS level.

I may also feel the same way to a certain extent, but rather than ripping the man I would attempt to find a solution. Perhaps candidates who apply for a Series with a DA endorsement should be evaluted before being selected. After the evaluation the candidate is recommended to a training before they can move forward or upward. Another suggestion may be that all candidate attend a required training after being recommended. If the candidate fails to demonstrate an ability to preform than more training is prescribed. Either way a volunteer in the program deserves a chance at a series.

A solution based approach is certainly a more positive than criticizing the entire system along with individuals. And as stated before talent and experience will be tested in these WS environments. Umpires miss calls when in perfect position for whatever the reason. I think what I enjoyed most about my particular experience was the absense of a ultra competitive environment among the group. We were a unit that hung out together after the games. No one sat around picking other guys apart. It was a group of geniune individuals who love the game and the craft. I know I have had a great deal more training than other guys not to mention experience, however it does not permit me to trash other umpires in the name of the profession.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by THoy

I may also feel the same way to a certain extent, but rather than ripping the man I would attempt to find a solution. Perhaps candidates who apply for a Series with a DA endorsement should be evaluted before being selected. After the evaluation the candidate is recommended to a training before they can move forward or upward. Another suggestion may be that all candidate attend a required training after being recommended. If the candidate fails to demonstrate an ability to preform than more training is prescribed. Either way a volunteer in the program deserves a chance at a series.

A solution based approach is certainly a more positive than criticizing the entire system along with individuals. And as stated before talent and experience will be tested in these WS environments. Umpires miss calls when in perfect position for whatever the reason. I think what I enjoyed most about my particular experience was the absense of a ultra competitive environment among the group. We were a unit that hung out together after the games. No one sat around picking other guys apart. It was a group of geniune individuals who love the game and the craft. I know I have had a great deal more training than other guys not to mention experience, however it does not permit me to trash other umpires in the name of the profession.

We do differ, I think, in one regard. There are not enough spots available for everyone to work a LLWS. Look at the West region -- there are thousands of LL umpires who would probably love to go to WP and they get 2 slots a year. So in the next 25 years that's 50 umpires that go.

So the selection process shouldn't be based upon identifying the right "volunteer." It should be designed around finding the right umpires who volunteer. Plenty of LL umpires have quite a bit of talent now and I'd rather take a 10-year umpire that has demonstrated ability than a 30-year person who others feel should be given a gold watch.

My solution would be to "not recommend" more umpires at the state and regional levels. I get that DAs aren't going to be able to tell quality umpires from lesser quality umpires at times. But by the time an umpire gets to a state or a regional tourney, there should be someone there to evaluate. If they can't handle the WS then (in the opinion of the UIC of the tourney) there should be no recommendation given. The umpire is then free to attend training, get more experience (not the same amount year after year) and get better and THEN go back to the level where they weren't recommended and try again. It shouldn't ever be a gold watch for these guys.

I find it pointless to rip individual umpires and pretty tasteless to do so -- I'll point out errors in order to help others not make the same mistake. But it doesn't stop me from wondering how some (and I felt that way about a couple at my WS this year) made it through the process. Doesn't mean I would denigrate those people and that I would do anything but help them and work with them when we shared the field, but those thoughts did cross my mind.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by THoy

I may also feel the same way to a certain extent, but rather than ripping the man I would attempt to find a solution. Perhaps candidates who apply for a Series with a DA endorsement should be evaluted before being selected. After the evaluation the candidate is recommended to a training before they can move forward or upward. Another suggestion may be that all candidate attend a required training after being recommended. If the candidate fails to demonstrate an ability to preform than more training is prescribed. Either way a volunteer in the program deserves a chance at a series.

A solution based approach is certainly a more positive than criticizing the entire system along with individuals. And as stated before talent and experience will be tested in these WS environments. Umpires miss calls when in perfect position for whatever the reason. I think what I enjoyed most about my particular experience was the absense of a ultra competitive environment among the group. We were a unit that hung out together after the games. No one sat around picking other guys apart. It was a group of geniune individuals who love the game and the craft. I know I have had a great deal more training than other guys not to mention experience, however it does not permit me to trash other umpires in the name of the profession.

You missed what I was trying to say, completetely. I'm not "ripping" John Hosler. And I thought I made that clear. What I'm "criticizing" (large difference), are his abilities on the diamond. You're looking at this with blinders on if you're unable to see that there are/were hundreds (maybe thousands) of other umpires just as dedicated to the LL program who would have been better suited for calling games on national television. And the criticism (ripping) of the LLWS umpire selection process that comes around each year with the event, is based largely in part on volunteers such as John Hosler being given a spot in Williamsport.

Tim.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by THoy

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified?

You want to reward him for volunteering? Buy him a watch. Give him a dinner. Name the umpire room in his honor.

Assignment to the WS should be based on quality of umpiring performance, not years of volunteer service.

Do they simply name the longest chartered teams to the series, or do they have to earn their way there by performing better than others on the field?

[Rita C]

It's getting old.

Rita

[Steven Tyler]

let the pidgeons loose!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rita C

It's getting old.

Rita

I agree.