LLWS and replay

[Tim C]

Rich:

I have met you, you watched me work and we have had a few (err, many) adult beverages together.

You know that I respect you greatly.

All being said, I have been the critic of Little League Baseball from day one on this board.

I find the LLWS as one of the worst explotations of children EVER. I hate the "Worldwide Leader" as a general statement and find no redeeming social value of what they do with the LLWS.

Again, all that being said: People that give away a skill set to an association that makes HUGE money (or soccer moms that buy $300 bats) are doing a tremendous disservice to umpiring.

When a guy named Hoy comes on here and tries to take umpires to task for simply saying the truth it ruffles my hackle.

Having worked games with over 50,000 screaming fans in attendance really changed nothing when I worked a game.

T

[THoy]

Originally Posted by Tim C

As I have noted before:

Volunteer Little League Umpiring = "Glamorous Baby Sitting"

JMO

T

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If it makes people feel better about their game to think this way than thats fine. When we volunteer umpire we help to give the kids a positive experience. The more we strive to be the best umpire we can be, the better the experience for the kids. The World Series is a place where the volunteer umpires are rewarded for their service and dedication. Opinions like the one above seem to reveal a disdain for the Little Umpire for reasons that I can only speculate. I am giving back to the program that gave so much to me and my family. Little League is my family as I have volunteered at the Western Region for over 20 years. So if what I do is "glorified babysitting" then so be it. I enjoy it, and I don't have to tell myself how good I am......I will let the kids, coaches, and evalutors be the judge of that.

The Little League World Series topped any level I have ever worked. It was an experience I will never forget as long as I live. I made friendships that will last a lifetime. I left everything I had to give on Volunteer and Lamade Stadiums and was not the least bit jeolous of my brothers who worked on Sunday. I enjoyed watching them from the stands with my family by my side. By not taking myself too seriously and following the main administrative directive of HAVING FUN...I did my best to provide those kids with the best quality umpiring that I was able to deliver. I only hope that my experience will inspire others to desire the World Series stage that I was fortunate enough to grace if only for a moment...Rich the Series is everything I have described and more. Let me know when you get the call....hopefully I can be there!

[MD Longhorn]

You don't have to speculate... you've been given the reasons. Multiple times no less.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Rich:

I have met you, you watched me work and we have had a few (err, many) adult beverages together.

You know that I respect you greatly.

All being said, I have been the critic of Little League Baseball from day one on this board.

I find the LLWS as one of the worst explotations of children EVER. I hate the "Worldwide Leader" as a general statement and find no redeeming social value of what they do with the LLWS.

Again, all that being said: People that give away a skill set to an association that makes HUGE money (or soccer moms that buy $300 bats) are doing a tremendous disservice to umpiring.

When a guy named Hoy comes on here and tries to take umpires to task for simply saying the truth it ruffles my hackle.

Having worked games with over 50,000 screaming fans in attendance really changed nothing when I worked a game.

T

Tim-

Like I have said before everyone is entitled to their opinion. With that being said, truth be told that umpires make mistakes (which ALL umpires do) IMHO they should not when "saying the truth" berate other umpires. Objectively speaking that only speaks to their own insecurities when it comes to umpiring. I am sure we could all watch each other work and pick each other apart, and I can only speak for myself when I say I would certainly not offer any "constructive criticism" unless it was requested. I am a big boy that certainly can handle criticism, however if people are going to throw bombs they should be prepared for the aftermath.

I am certainly and sincerely glad that you have had the opportunity to work in front of large crowds on a consistent basis. It doesnt change the manner in which I work either, however one would certainly not be truthful in saying that it did not add a certain level of intensity to the situation. Further, to claim that it did not would also be an indication of not having done so.

To conlcude, if I wish to "give away" a skill set to an organization that is clearly my choice in doing so. If you, or anyone else has a problem with that then that is your/their problem. My issue is with the berating of other fellow umpires for whatever reason. I could drop names of people I have worked with and blah, blah,blah. I will say only this... I have worked and instructed with with several professionals...and they would never trash other umpires...professional or amatuer..for thier own enjoyment or bolstering of a false sense of confidence.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You don't have to speculate... you've been given the reasons. Multiple times no less.

I apologize if I have offended you. However, I should be able to defend my position....should I not?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by THoy

I apologize if I have offended you. However, I should be able to defend my position....should I not?

When did I say you offended me? Thin skinned today? You said,

Opinions like the one above seem to reveal a disdain for the Little Umpire for reasons that I can only speculate.

Why do you need to speculate? Those reasons have been given ad nauseum, and many times in this thread alone.

I have no problem with someone who is willing to invest their time in learning to umpire correctly choosing whatever organization they like to ply their wares. But honestly - if you're working LL for free, you should know that you're giving away services to a group who don't feel your services deserve pay. That says everything most officials need to know about LL. The umpiring is inherently and necessarily worse at LL, solely because this refusal to pay pushes a great number of umpires elsewhere. I'm not saying it's impossible to be good and work LL. Just that the overall general talent level is lower because the pool of umpires who will work for them is smaller.

I will say this. I worked LL some this summer. I worked because I was begged and even then - they paid me, whether they were supposed to or not. Working those games was miserable. One partner meant well but had ZERO training. Another partner was a truly nice guy, but had no clue and had no intention of learning either. He let a coach walk all over him the game I worked with him - and when we got together between games he INSISTED he would never eject a coach because "it's all about the kids." He didn't seem to understand or WANT to understand that allowing that kind of crap was not "for the kids" and he was doing himself AND all the umpires that followed him a huge disservice. I'm given to understand that this quality is about equal across that district.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

When did I say you offended me? Thin skinned today? You said, Why do you need to speculate? Those reasons have been given ad nauseum, and many times in this thread alone.

I have no problem with someone who is willing to invest their time in learning to umpire correctly choosing whatever organization they like to ply their wares. But honestly - if you're working LL for free, you should know that you're giving away services to a group who don't feel your services deserve pay. That says everything most officials need to know about LL. The umpiring is inherently and necessarily worse at LL, solely because this refusal to pay pushes a great number of umpires elsewhere. I'm not saying it's impossible to be good and work LL. Just that the overall general talent level is lower because the pool of umpires who will work for them is smaller.

I will say this. I worked LL some this summer. I worked because I was begged and even then - they paid me, whether they were supposed to or not. Working those games was miserable. One partner meant well but had ZERO training. Another partner was a truly nice guy, but had no clue and had no intention of learning either. He let a coach walk all over him the game I worked with him - and when we got together between games he INSISTED he would never eject a coach because "it's all about the kids." He didn't seem to understand or WANT to understand that allowing that kind of crap was not "for the kids" and he was doing himself AND all the umpires that followed him a huge disservice. I'm given to understand that this quality is about equal across that district.

Crowder-

I can sympathize with you and understand your position regarding a select population of LL umpires. However, you cannot cast that light onto all LL umpires. I have also worked with guys like that, but I used the "major" tournaments I have worked to hopefully inspire them to seek better training. Many LL umpires have attended professional schools to help themsleves and LL. I attempt to explain to them that their job will get easier if they get more training and ask questions. Umpires are a very valuable comodity in the LL program. Just because they don't pay them monetarily doesnt make the program an exploiter. LL has been a volunteer organization since its inception and that is why the Series is reserved for volunteers.

Everybody has different philosophies regarding umpiring. When I am on the field I handle what needs to be handled. If a LL guys dont want to jack a manger, coach, or player who has crossed the line...then bet your *** I will do it...and it will get done. If questions are asked after the game, then I will answer them respectfully saying basically I cannot allow that kind of thing when I am on the field with you. A big part of the LL program is exactly the issue you raise regarding proper behavior and ettiquette. And that is exactly the reason I do what I do....its not about you or me...its about the kids and the fact that no one is teaching them about respect. I assume that role when need be. We lead by example. Just because you get paid for something does not mean you are good at it, but when you volunteer you are always doing good. Some of you may find that to be a load of BS and thats fine, but there are hundreds of thousands of true blue volunteers who will disagree.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

when did i say you offended me? Thin skinned today?

:d

[kylejt]

Everybody umpires for different reasons. Even LL umpires.

Me, I do it to teach kids how to officiate games, and that includes all the ancillary life lessons that go along with it. I couldn't care less about working post season games. I'll do it, if it's what my Juniors want to do, and I can help them out.

To me, it's just another volunteer job at the field. No different than fixing the plumbing, mowing the grass, or working the grill. All jobs you can get paid for outside the park, that need to be done in order for a local league to function.

("Oh, but we go to special schools, and have lots of equipment". So does our plumber, and that reel lawn mower costs about $7K.)

Some leagues pay plumbers, grounds keepers, cooks, etc. Others can get find volunteers to do it. Every league is different.

Some guys like to think that umpiring is a God given skill, to be envied by all. Swell. I'm sure some plumbers think the same way. Honestly, it ain't that hard, nor complicated, unlike plumbing. Or maybe it's just that my job is tad more complicated than either.

Not that I'm a zealot for volunteer umpires. Every local league can do what they wish, and so can every umpire. I don't care. I have a skill that I can help out my local league with, so I do. To me, it's just like coaching a baseball team. I've got a bunch of kids I'm in charge of for the season, and I try to pass on baseball skills, and life lessons.

But in the end, for all us umpires, it just comes down to officiating a game. Some folks try to take it as serious as heart attack, but it's really nothing more than than.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Everybody umpires for different reasons. Even LL umpires.

Me, I do it to teach kids how to officiate games, and that includes all the ancillary life lessons that go along with it. I couldn't care less about working post season games. I'll do it, if it's what my Juniors want to do, and I can help them out.

To me, it's just another volunteer job at the field. No different than fixing the plumbing, mowing the grass, or working the grill. All jobs you can get paid for outside the park, that need to be done in order for a local league to function.

("Oh, but we go to special schools, and have lots of equipment". So does our plumber, and that reel lawn mower costs about $7K.)

Some leagues pay plumbers, grounds keepers, cooks, etc. Others can get find volunteers to do it. Every league is different.

Some guys like to think that umpiring is God given skill, to be envied by all. Swell. I'm sure some plumbers think the same way. Honestly, it ain't that hard, nor complicated, unlike plumbing. Or maybe it's just that my job is tad more complicated than either.

Not that I'm a zealot for volunteer umpires. Every local league can do what they wish, and so can every umpire. I don't care. I have a skill that I can help out my local league with, so I do. To me, it's just like coaching a baseball ball team. I've got a bunch of kids I'm in charge of for the season, and try to pass on baseball skills, and life lessons.

But in the end, for all us umpires, it just comes down to officiating a game. Some folks try to take it as serious as heart attack, but it's really nothing more than than.

Absolutely.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by THoy

However, you cannot cast that light onto all LL umpires.

Never did. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not denigrating the umpires at all - I'm denigrating the organization and their methods of A) payment and B) selection (although only the former in this particular thread ... so far).

[kylejt]

Let's make this clear for everyone. Little League does not preclude local leagues from paying umpires. There are no rules against it, nor have there been. It's up to each individual league to decide how they want to cover that particular duty. Again, it's no different than scorekeeping, working the snack bar, or mowing the grass. Some leagues pay, and others don't.

Now, if you want to work post season, then you've got to jump through certain hoops. Years ago, a post season selection was like a gold watch given for years of service. A "thank you" to guys who might be working their last games. The trouble started around 10 years ago, when more games were televised, and it became apparent that some of these folks were just not up to the task any more. Things have evolved since then, and performance is more of a key ingredient.

Oh, you've still got to pay your dues, and part of it is being a volunteer. See, with so many folks vying for those spots, LL can be picky on who they select. Pure volunteers is just an easy way to filter folks out. Out West, you're going to need to be an instructor, too. Other locations aren't as picky, as they don't have the huge pool to draw from.

For those that like to smack volunteer umpires for doing a paid job, and thus diluting the job market, consider this: Would you be as critical of a guy who donates his skills as a carpenter, and helps build a clubhouse for his kid's league?

[zm1283]

I don't really have a problem with umpires themselves who want to volunteer. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. The problem I have is with the LL organization itself. It's insistence on volunteers for postseason, the insane rules they use, the exploitation of kids on TV so they can make money, etc etc. Plus, the glorification by LL and ESPN of volunteer umpires is kind of goofy. It's like they're trying to convince viewers that the volunteers are somehow better because they don't take money and "Do it for the kids". The whole thing is just a circus.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Rich:

I find the LLWS as one of the worst explotations of children EVER. I hate the "Worldwide Leader" as a general statement and find no redeeming social value of what they do with the LLWS.

T

That's the problem I have with the so called LLWS. My son and I were discussing this and as I told him there are many LLWS going on, they just choose to televise this one because of the international flavor?? i guess.

And there are what ten or twelve maybe more leagues that have "small ball" World Series and only a few of them make it to TV at all.

LL is lucky because ESPN buys into all the hoopla and LL makes a $$$ killing every year off of this one series.

Kudos for LL being smart enough to take advantage of this.

Thanks
David

[THoy]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Let's make this clear for everyone. Little League does not preclude local leagues from paying umpires. There are no rules against it, nor have there been. It's up to each individual league to decide how they want to cover that particular duty. Again, it's no different than scorekeeping, working the snack bar, or mowing the grass. Some leagues pay, and others don't.

Now, if you want to work post season, then you've got to jump through certain hoops. Years ago, a post season selection was like a gold watch given for years of service. A "thank you" to guys who might be working their last games. The trouble started around 10 years ago, when more games were televised, and it became apparent that some of these folks were just not up to the task any more. Things have evolved since then, and performance is more of a key ingredient.

Oh, you've still got to pay your dues, and part of it is being a volunteer. See, with so many folks vying for those spots, LL can be picky on who they select. Pure volunteers is just an easy way to filter folks out. Out West, you're going to need to be an instructor, too. Other locations aren't as picky, as they don't have the huge pool to draw from.

For those that like to smack volunteer umpires for doing a paid job, and thus diluting the job market, consider this: Would you be as critical of a guy who donates his skills as a carpenter, and helps build a clubhouse for his kid's league?

Again. Well put.