LLWS and replay

[Rich]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

BretMan, I can see your point because the base umpires were the umpires getting in the way, not the line umpires. Eye contact and communication between umpires is very important, especially when working with larger crews. This may take longer when the crew members are not familiar with each other or the six man system. That, along with the small field confines made it look like it was difficult to potentially make a call and get inside while avoiding incoming throws, runners and fielders.

Why get inside, though? It's just as easy to get an angle from the outside and, bonus, you're not in the way of the players.

[njdevs00cup]

Rich, from what I've seen the 2B umpire (not 1B & 3B umpire) busts inside on balls hit to the outfield. I'm not sure if he/she has any coverage responsibilities regarding fly ball/trouble ball coverage to the outfield with a six man system in Little League. Most of the issues with almost getting hit by throws, and interfering with fielders and runners were on plays around second base. A lot of people in a small space.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Rich, from what I've seen the 2B umpire (not 1B & 3B umpire) busts inside on balls hit to the outfield. I'm not sure if he/she has any coverage responsibilities regarding fly ball/trouble ball coverage to the outfield with a six man system in Little League. Most of the issues with almost getting hit by throws, and interfering with fielders and runners were on plays around second base. A lot of people in a small space.

Not really... think of softball, also played on a 60 foot diamond. In any number of man mechanics, SOMEone is going to be in that inside area on balls hit to the outfield. There's plenty of room. The issues around 2nd have nothing to do with 6-man mechanics being used where they shouldn't, but rather due to untrained umpires who have not worked together not knowing what to do or where to be.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Rich, from what I've seen the 2B umpire (not 1B & 3B umpire) busts inside on balls hit to the outfield. I'm not sure if he/she has any coverage responsibilities regarding fly ball/trouble ball coverage to the outfield with a six man system in Little League. Most of the issues with almost getting hit by throws, and interfering with fielders and runners were on plays around second base. A lot of people in a small space.

There's no need to bust anywhere. Go opposite the ball, make sure you're out of the way, and if necessary, make a call -- even from the outside. False hustle to get inside at the cutout before the ball comes in. Unnecessary.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

There's no need to bust anywhere. Go opposite the ball, make sure you're out of the way, and if necessary, make a call -- even from the outside. False hustle to get inside at the cutout before the ball comes in. Unnecessary.

I completely agree and I'm glad someone else has said it. If you have to work a four man crew on the small diamond, there's no reason for anyone to be on the inside except the PU. You can make calls as easily from the outside with proper positioning without having to bust inside. It's too messy to have umpires moving inside on that small of a field.

Tim.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by LMan

I agree with Rich. Pay isn't the main issue, its the selection criteria (or lack of same). Implement a rigorous, merit-based selection process that brings the best to Williamsport, and the best will aspire to get there regardless of pay.

But, apparently too many LL lifers have to be paid off with a Williamsport trip because of their decades of service. That model worked in the past, but when the only aspect of the LLWS that remains stuck in the 1970s is the umpiring, something needs to change. When replay continually overturns on-field calls, it gets harder and harder to ignore.

Speaking of which, that umpire that charged in and killed a fair ball hitting the 3B bag was a doozy. I bet he wished there was a hole he could climb into...even my daughter said that that should be made into a "Wanna Get Away?" Southwest Airlines commercial

I don't have a problem admiting that I made a mistake taking a play I had no business calling. However, I also will not make myself out to be something I am not...... which is perfect. Replay is what it is. Little League has choosen to implement this system for whatever the reason. My guess is that these teams have played long and hard to get to The Series and shouldn't have anything taken away from them at the very end.

Either way, I had the time of my life...minus one call. BTW Even professionals make mistakes....right? The rest of the tournament went great and I had the privilege of calling the International Championship. I have seen what the Little League program can do to change peoples lives for the better...first hand. It's way more than just people scratching each others backs. Love to work with you sometime.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by Publius

So? Plenty of guys get into the minors over superior competition because the have pleasing personalities and don't carry the legal and ethical baggage PBUC abhors. Same in D1 and the NCAA.

Umpiring is not a strict meritocracy at any level, so LL is no different. World Series assignments at every level are as much about personal relationships and representing the sanctioning body the way it wants to be represented as about competence, which typically has to be only acceptable.

Working pro ball or D1 is not prima facie evidence of excellence.

I do not work D-1. Have worked in the minors. Love to hear more about PBUC from you and compare experiences. Do not claim to be the best...just do what I can. Again, I think the philosophy of Little League Baseball and the manner in which it is implemented are misunderstood.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by THoy

I don't having a problem admiting that I made a mistake taking a play I had no business calling. However, I also will not make myself out to be something I am not...... which is perfect. Replay is what it is. Little League has choosen to implement this system for whatever the reason. My guess is that these teams have played long and hard to get to The Series and shouldn't have anything taken away from them at the very end.
Either way, I had the time of my life...minus one call. BTW Even professionals make mistakes....right? The rest of the tournament went great and I had the privilege of calling the International Championship. I have seen what the Little League program can do to change peoples lives for the better...first hand. It's way more than just people scratching each others backs. Love to work with you sometime.

Most, if not all, of the teams are all-star teams made up of players off of different teams in a given area. These teams don't play together all summer for the most part.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Most, if not all, of the teams are all-star teams made up of players off of different teams in a given area. These teams don't play together all summer for the most part.

Actually, a great deal of these players are on travel teams that play together or against each other year round. However my statement was pertaining to, in California, teams play 3-5 games in District, Section, SUb-Division, Division, Regional Tournaments, then the World Series. Shame to play 15 games to get to the Series to have an incorrect call knock you out of Series contention.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by THoy

Actually, a great deal of these players are on travel teams that play together or against each other year round. However my statement was pertaining to, in California, teams play 3-5 games in District, Section, SUb-Division, Division, Regional Tournaments, then the World Series. Shame to play 15 games to get to the Series to have an incorrect call knock you out of Series contention.

It's 12 year-olds playing baseball. Life isn't always fair. Missed calls happen. It's only a big deal because the LLWS is on TV and everyone makes it a bigger deal than it really is.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by zm1283

It's 12 year-olds playing baseball. Life isn't always fair. Missed calls happen. It's only a big deal because the LLWS is on TV and everyone makes it a bigger deal than it really is.

I'm with you. It's only a big deal because it's on TV and LL has decided to make it a big deal. 7 other LLI World Series are played and *none* have instituted replay, not even in their televised championship games. Life seems to go on.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by zm1283

It's 12 year-olds playing baseball. Life isn't always fair. Missed calls happen. It's only a big deal because the LLWS is on TV and everyone makes it a bigger deal than it really is.

I agree. However, some believe that replay is a slap in the face to umpires and to a certain extent I might agree. LL has chosen to implement instant replay as "an extra set of eyes". Of course there will be other interpretations as in other posts. Once again, the answer isnt paid experienced umpires. LL is a volunteer organization and the volunteers are the ones who deserve the honor and privilege, not those who feel their skill level warrants a complete overhaul of the LL volunteer umpire system.

Further, the negativity expressed in some posts regarding volunteer umpires is deplorable. Umpires are supposed to be a fraternity or brothers who help each other get better. The simple fact of the matter is that experience cannot prevent mistakes or a laspes in concentration. Even guys who work everyday in Professional Baseball kick calls every now and then. That was my point.

[Tim C]

" . . . LL is a volunteer organization and the volunteers are the ones who deserve the honor and privilege . . .

As I have noted before:

Volunteer Little League Umpiring = "Glamorous Baby Sitting"

JMO

T

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by tim c

as i have noted before:

Volunteer little league umpiring = "glamorous baby sitting"

jmo

t

+100!!!!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tim C

As I have noted before:

Volunteer Little League Umpiring = "Glamorous Baby Sitting"

JMO

T

You know me and you know I work LL and worked one of the eight World Series tournaments this year -- I'd hope that people that know me and have met me (and/or have seen me umpire) would stop and think, "Hey, Rich does this. There are good umpires that work LL games." Guess not. Your blanket generalization notwithstanding, I guess if I should ever be fortunate enough to be selected for Williamsport I'll have to listen to people on this and other forums say how I'm just a glorified babysitter. That's OK with me.

I don't personally know THoy -- I know he was the third base umpire who called the ball foul that hit the bag. I know he was a minor league umpire and a guy who has owned his mistake. And all of us have made similar mistakes before -- only a few get to make them in front of a nationwide audience.

BTW, I was watching the Phillies/Braves last night. Dale Scott was on the plate, Jerry Meals at first. Ball hit up the line, fielded by Ryan Howard a few feet in front of the bag. Scott (from the plate) pointed fair, Meals pointed foul.