LLWS and replay

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by THoy

My apologies I misunderstood what you meant by inherently. If you watched the Series this year the umpiring was better than average if you were objective. There were some mistakes as with ANY tournament (BTW CB Bucknor botched a trapped ball last night and called it no catch (edit)- It wasnt clearly obvious, but I noticed it right away) then the RF 'er came up throwing to the plate to cut down a runner who wasn't tagging. I know we are talking about LL umpires, but it happens at every level. Some people just are not able to objectively admit this. Does it happen more often at LL...yes, but hopefully it can be improved. However, it is farse to say that payment for services rendered will accomplish the improvement.

Apology accepted. I did not say each individual umpire was bad ... I said the overall quality of the umpiring was bad. And if you feel the umpiring was better than average, I suggest strongly that you get out more. The umpiring on TV was an embarassment to those of us who do the job, and on the whole brought the perception of umpires across the board down. Go work a district tournament in ANY other organization (not to mention a regional or state) and you'll see better umpiring than you saw on TV. Given that you work LL, you are probably completely unaware of the HUGE number of poor positioning, poor (or unnecessary) rotations, etc that we saw. I'm not talking wrong calls... I'm talking wrong calls because the umpire was not where he should have been, or was making a call that belonged to someone else better placed to make the call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Given that you work LL, you are probably completely unaware of the HUGE number of poor positioning, poor (or unnecessary) rotations, etc that we saw.

Really? I'm sure he's aware since he was a *minor league umpire*.

And I work LL, etc. and I would like to think I'm quite aware, too.

Broad brush, again.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Given that you work LL, you are probably completely unaware of the HUGE number of poor positioning, poor (or unnecessary) rotations, etc that we saw.

That's just awful.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That's just awful.

Yup. Too bad, too. I always thought better of him.

We have 5 umpires in our district who I'd put up against any umpires. All 5 have worked college schedules and deep into the HS playoffs -- 4 of us have worked one of the LL World Series tournaments (2 at the LLWS). July and August are dedicated to LL for all of us. I guess we magically turn into crappy umpires the second they stop paying us to work games and we put on a LL patch.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Yup. Too bad, too. I always thought better of him.

We have 5 umpires in our district who I'd put up against any umpires. All 5 have worked college schedules and deep into the HS playoffs -- 4 of us have worked one of the LL World Series tournaments (2 at the LLWS). July and August are dedicated to LL for all of us. I guess we magically turn into crappy umpires the second they stop paying us to work games and we put on a LL patch.

Obviously what I said is being taken in a way I didn't intend... but after rereading I'm not seeing it. I've repeatedly said that there are good umpires and bad umpires in LL --- just that the selection pool in general is worse. What did I say to make you think poorly of me?

(Whatever it was, I apologize).

Edit to add: I've not read every post this guy has ever made, perhaps not even every single post of his in this thread... I was not aware he is (or says he is) a minor league umpire. I based my statement on his direct quote that the umpiring in this year's LLWS was not bad... I think it's clear that it was bad - very bad. Perhaps my assumption of the reason he was unaware was wrong ... but I'm honestly flabbergasted then that ANY minor league umpire could have watched this year's LLWS and called that umpiring "not bad".

In any case, I apologize for the broad brush.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I guess we magically turn into crappy umpires the second they stop paying us to work games and we put on a LL patch.

That's not what I meant, and I think you know that.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Apology accepted. I did not say each individual umpire was bad ... I said the overall quality of the umpiring was bad. And if you feel the umpiring was better than average, I suggest strongly that you get out more. The umpiring on TV was an embarassment to those of us who do the job, and on the whole brought the perception of umpires across the board down. Go work a district tournament in ANY other organization (not to mention a regional or state) and you'll see better umpiring than you saw on TV. Given that you work LL, you are probably completely unaware of the HUGE number of poor positioning, poor (or unnecessary) rotations, etc that we saw. I'm not talking wrong calls... I'm talking wrong calls because the umpire was not where he should have been, or was making a call that belonged to someone else better placed to make the call.

I was at the LLWS. I worked with all the gentlemen, and one lady (who was awesome). It was a good group of veteran LL umpires I would be proud to work with anytime. So, I would have to disagree with you. And honestly, I would love to come and work with you sometime. Further, when we were done I would not rake you over the coals. I would buy you a cold one and a plate wings!

As far as positioning goes you have a point to a certain degree. The small diamond often limits the amount of angle you can get on a given play. I was blocked out on a play at first by the F4 (2ndbaseman), but I made an adjustment and got the play right. However, there we those that were out of position at times. As a whole, the umpiring was no where near the level that has been described in this forum. A few mistakes and some controversy, but nothing that cost any team a chance at the title.

It would certainly be nice if people could understand that umpiring, like anything else, requires constant self analysis and adjustments. You cannot position yourself in the same place for every play. You must react to each individual play. If you can see a play clearly from one position that may not be textbook, then what is the difference? If you are nailing the plays from that position then why change? If you are kicking plays from the proper position, what good is proper position?

I did witness plays that were called incorrectly. One of those plays was mine. I owned during the game, after the game, and right now. There was not as many blown calls as people many want to believe. Maybe people should be offering possible solutions instead of ripping people apart?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by THoy

I was at the LLWS. I worked with all the gentlemen, and one lady (who was awesome). It was a good group of veteran LL umpires I would be proud to work with anytime. So, I would have to disagree with you. And honestly, I would love to come and work with you sometime. Further, when we were done I would not rake you over the coals. I would buy you a cold one and a plate wings!

Maybe people should be offering possible solutions instead of ripping people apart?

I've been milling over whether to say this or not, and I hope it's not taken the wrong way, but I don't think John Hosler was up to the task. He looked out of his element.

Tim.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I've been milling over whether to say this or not, and I hope it's not taken the wrong way, but I don't think John Hosler was up to the task. He looked out of his element.

Tim.

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

[THoy]

Originally Posted by THoy

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

I would work with John Hosler anytime!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by THoy

I would work with John Hosler anytime!

As would I, but that doesn't mean he belonged on the stage LL placed him.

Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by THoy

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

This is why I was hesitant to make the comment about John Hosler. Your defense of the man's umpiring abilities is you speaking with your heart and not your head. The man wasn't good.............period. This isn't a jab at the man's person, or a knock on the effort he put forth. He was there based on his volunteerism alone. Not based on his officiating prowess *combined* with his volunteerism. And as long as LL continues to overlook better, more qualified umpires who have also put in their time to the program, and instead chose to place umpires of John's caliber on national television, they're going to be continually criticized for it.

Tim.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This is why I was hesitant to make the comment about John Hosler. Your defense of the man's umpiring abilities is you speaking with your heart and not your head. The man wasn't good.............period. This isn't a jab at the man's person, or a knock on the effort he put forth. He was there based on his volunteerism alone. Not based on his officiating prowess *combined* with his volunteerism. And as long as LL continues to overlook better, more qualified umpires who have also put in their time to the program, and instead chose to place umpires of John's caliber on national television, they're going to be continually criticized for it.

Tim.

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified? Or John can never work a Series if he cannot improve his skills? First, the LLWS has a ten year waiting list of volunteers ready to do the job. With that being said, LL does not need to change anything in regards to umpire recruitment. There are plenty of training opportunities out there and John has attended. That is the beauty of LL today. The players that cannot make travel teams can play, and those umpires that cannot get assignments can work.

Bottom line, LL is a organization that praises and honors its volunteers. Our payment is those special assignments like the LLWS's. There will always be those who will criticize others abilities or compare their abilities to those who are honored enough to be selected. However, I prefer to compare my abilities to my potential and how close I am to being the umpire I would like to eventually become, rather than criticizing others for giving themselves and their time to a program that honors them.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by THoy

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified? Or John can never work a Series if he cannot improve his skills? First, the LLWS has a ten year waiting list of volunteers ready to do the job. With that being said, LL does not need to change anything in regards to umpire recruitment. There are plenty of training opportunities out there and John has attended. That is the beauty of LL today. The players that cannot make travel teams can play, and those umpires that cannot get assignments can work.

Bottom line, LL is a organization that praises and honors its volunteers. Our payment is those special assignments like the LLWS's. There will always be those who will criticize others abilities or compare their abilities to those who are honored enough to be selected. However, I prefer to compare my abilities to my potential and how close I am to being the umpire I would like to eventually become, rather than criticizing others for giving themselves and their time to a program that honors them.

Honestly, that kind of says it all. Thank you sir.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by THoy

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified?

You want to reward him for volunteering? Buy him a watch. Give him a dinner. Name the umpire room in his honor.

Assignment to the WS should be based on quality of umpiring performance, not years of volunteer service.

Do they simply name the longest chartered teams to the series, or do they have to earn their way there by performing better than others on the field?