Baseball question from a football/basketball ref.

[kylejt]

Maybe it's just the local HS guys. Honestly, nobody, NOBODY would yell at me like these guys get away with. If you wouldn't take in line at the Costco, why would allow it when you're supposed be in charge?

I'd be a lousey BB ref becuase there wouldn't be local coach after 10 minutes on most games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Maybe it's just the local HS guys. Honestly, nobody, NOBODY would yell at me like these guys get away with. If you wouldn't take in line at the Costco, why would allow it when you're supposed be in charge?

I'd be a lousey BB ref becuase there wouldn't be local coach after 10 minutes on most games.

Not many here can speak for your local guys and what they tolerate or should tolerate. I will just say that guys that take the baseball mentality to other sports often end up not doing very well in basketball or football for that matter in my experience. And you said something interesting. You said we are supposed to be in charge. That is true, but that cannot be what you reflect on the basketball court. Your presence and your behavior are supposed to show you are in charge, not you dumping someone. I will put it this way, as a basketball official you have to learn how to tell someone to STFU rather than actually using those words. No big deal, but it is just a different reality than baseball that is really all.

Peace

[kylejt]

I don't take a sport official, of any sport, mentality with me. If you have something to say, say it in a reasonable fashion. I'm just a guy, doin' a job. Don't do anything to me that you wouldn't expect in return. And don't talk to me on a baseball diamond in a way that you wouldn't in a grocery store.

And I'm not the ejecting sort in baseball. Once every three or four years. I just don't let it get to that point. Which is why it mystifies me that other officials allow themselves to be hollered at for the duration of a game.

Actually, I enjoy watching basketball with my baseball pals. They always look to me when some loudmouth coach starts at it. I'll make an ejection motion from the bleachers, just for a laugh. And usually within the first two minutes of a game.

Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by kylejt

...
Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

What level of basketball are you used to watching and where? Definitely not anywhere near where I watch.

[David B]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I don't take a sport official, of any sport, mentality with me. If you have something to say, say it in a reasonable fashion. I'm just a guy, doin' a job. Don't do anything to me that you wouldn't expect in return. And don't talk to me on a baseball diamond in a way that you wouldn't in a grocery store.

And I'm not the ejecting sort in baseball. Once every three or four years. I just don't let it get to that point. Which is why it mystifies me that other officials allow themselves to be hollered at for the duration of a game.

Actually, I enjoy watching basketball with my baseball pals. They always look to me when some loudmouth coach starts at it. I'll make an ejection motion from the bleachers, just for a laugh. And usually within the first two minutes of a game.

Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

Must be some poor coaching that you are used to watching. In our area, coaches most of the time don't yell at officials, they are simply "begging" for a call to go their way.

If a coach does start "yelling", then we have several options on how to deal with them, whereas in baseball, your hands are tied, you only have one option.

Many things have helped basketball, mainly the "coaching box" rules which require the coach to stay confined etc.,

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

This is my point when I say "baseball mentality." You are so worried about your ego or your manhood that you think that officials are taking crap when they clearly are not. And watching big time college basketball, I can say with certainty that the Valentines, Hightowers, Burrs and O'Neils of the world are afraid of coaches saying something to them. Or better yet are afraid to penalize a coach for their behavior.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What level of basketball are you used to watching and where? Definitely not anywhere near where I watch.

Agreed.

Peace

[kylejt]

HS Varsity, JC and D1.

You'll see coaches just rail at officials from either four feet away, or across the court.

It's not an ego thing, just common courtesy. The level of #@$ taken in other sports is far beyond that of what we deem acceptable on the diamond. I mean, we dump on the first blathering of "...YOU....", whereas other officials just act like they don't even hear it. I just find it odd.

Maybe it's a baseball thing, and we've got it all wrong. You see far more ejections in baseball than all other sports. So why is that?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Maybe it's a baseball thing, and we've got it all wrong. You see far more ejections in baseball than all other sports. So why is that?

Because baseball has always been considered "a gentlemens game"?

Tim.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

HS Varsity, JC and D1.

You'll see coaches just rail at officials from either four feet away, or across the court.

I work a lot of games and I watch more games and many in person. Sorry, I see nothing different from a basketball point of view that I do not see in baseball as it relates to complaining. More coaches in baseball are yelling from 100 feet away than I ever get in basketball games. And if they are yelling from far away, it usually is addressed. Just because they are not throwing them out (which is your baseball mentality to handed the situation and you admitted to) does not mean they are not handing the situation in another way. Basketball officials do not need to throw people out to accomplish what they want.

Originally Posted by kylejt

It's not an ego thing, just common courtesy. The level of #@$ taken in other sports is far beyond that of what we deem acceptable on the diamond. I mean, we dump on the first blathering of "...YOU....", whereas other officials just act like they don't even hear it. I just find it odd.

And which is why I said that mentality often does not survive in other sports. Because to me it is a cop out to always eject someone. If you cannot think of something to say or to take over the discussion, then that says a lot. Even in baseball I know how to control the discussion with a coach and get them to do what I want without ejecting them. Also most baseball discussions take place with play stopped. Basketball play is going on continuously. Again, different sport different expectations.

Originally Posted by kylejt

Maybe it's a baseball thing, and we've got it all wrong. You see far more ejections in baseball than all other sports. So why is that?

Yes and baseball umpires are seen to be the cause of many of those situations than in other sports. Not to say basketball does not have some "confrontational" people from a public perception standpoint. But if you listen to the "public" and many ejections that take place, it is seen as the umpire overreacted. At least many confrontations with basketball officials are often seen as justified or not a shock when players or coaches are penalized.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Maybe it's a baseball thing, and we've got it all wrong. You see far more ejections in baseball than all other sports. So why is that?

Baseball lacks an effective intermediate penalty. Football has the 15 yard USB. Basketball has the technical foul. Soccer has the caution. What does baseball have? Nothing short of ejection.

[MD Longhorn]

This was alluded to, but not focused on.

The main reason there is such a difference here is that in basketball there is a known intermediate step between nothing and ejection - the technical foul. An actual penalty that hurts the team, but keeps the coach in the game. In baseball and softball, at best you have the warning, which really holds nothing. In basketball, a coach might risk the intermediate step on purpose to rile up his team - the technical foul is PART OF the game.

I can't tell you how often I've wished for a T in baseball or softball.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I can't tell you how often I've wished for a T in baseball or softball.

That would be awsome!

You'd actually bring out a tee, and let a batter hit off of it. That would be a great penalty.

[David B]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That would be awsome!

You'd actually bring out a tee, and let a batter hit off of it. That would be a great penalty.

Lol,not a bad idea. Defensive coach complains, bring out the T.

But what do you do when the offense complains?

Thanks
David