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Old Tue Nov 11, 2003, 07:57pm
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Hello everyone. I'm a high school football official, but also an advid basketball fan. Before our season starts, we receive 3-4 different officiating manuals that covers the rules and situations. Football is a game of many rules, but it seems to me that basketball has significantly fewer rules. I have some friends that officiate both football and basketball and they state that you all receive the same manuals before the basketball season and that they are just as thick as the football ones. I've sat down and tried to think of the different penalties and fouls in basketball, but can't come up with that many. I guess my question just comes out of ignorance of never having officiated basketball, but are there that many different situations or things that can happen as comparted to say football? I can only name foul, technical foul, traveling, double dribble, goal tending, palming, flagrant foul, up and down. Some of those terms may just come from the playground in my head. Again, please forgive my ignorance. I was just curious on your feedback.
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Old Tue Nov 11, 2003, 08:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Simbio
Hello everyone. I'm a high school football official, but also an advid basketball fan. Before our season starts, we receive 3-4 different officiating manuals that covers the rules and situations. Football is a game of many rules, but it seems to me that basketball has significantly fewer rules. I have some friends that officiate both football and basketball and they state that you all receive the same manuals before the basketball season and that they are just as thick as the football ones. I've sat down and tried to think of the different penalties and fouls in basketball, but can't come up with that many. I guess my question just comes out of ignorance of never having officiated basketball, but are there that many different situations or things that can happen as comparted to say football? I can only name foul, technical foul, traveling, double dribble, goal tending, palming, flagrant foul, up and down. Some of those terms may just come from the playground in my head. Again, please forgive my ignorance. I was just curious on your feedback.
Well, to start with just the travelling rule alone probably takes up 15 pages, if you string them all together from the various manuals. There's which foot is the pivot foot if you do this, which foot is the pivot if you do that, how many of these kinds of steps, how many of those kinds of steps, etc. And if you start listing technical fouls, it's pages and pages. I mean, I can list only a few penalties for football, too, but think of all the different ways they can be administered. Football MAY be more complicated, but it's not a quantum jump.
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Old Tue Nov 11, 2003, 08:35pm
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I referee both sports. never actually looked to see which one is larger however, There are the same manuals for BB as there is FB---
I think football has more rules however you dont use them all every game (there are some real obscure ones) and if somebosy does not remember there is somebody on the crew that does. There are lots more penalties with each of the enforcements.. basic spot, end of run, but you can carry the cheat card on to the field....Football requires judgement but in some ways it's easier to call---

Basketball has less rules, but most of them are used each night on the floor, especially in girls or 8th grade and lower. Requires lots of judgement on evry play...

All in all two different sports-and it's like comparing apples and oranges. I like them both. I would pay 200 bucks to officiate a good HS football game or basketball game right now!
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Old Tue Nov 11, 2003, 08:54pm
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I don't know, but I reffed soccer and I'm positive its a cakewalk compared to football and basketball.

From a fans view, I'd say basketball is the most difficult to ref. I think football -while there may be more rules and situations- can be broken down easier. The flow of a basketball game dictates almost all violations can be in effect at all times. Almost all rules in basketball are more subjective as well. Plus the fans and coaches are closer to you!

I know you weren't trying to figure out which sport was more difficult to ref, but I thought I'd give you my opinion anyway.

[Edited by gcburns on Nov 11th, 2003 at 07:57 PM]
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Old Tue Nov 11, 2003, 11:11pm
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Lightbulb I am quoting here.

Some will get very upset by what I say and may disagree. But here is a perspective from a D1 Basketball Official in a couple of my associations that I belong to.

"Basketball is 95 percent mechanics and appearance and 5 percent rules."

His point was that if you look the part, hustle have good signal mechanics, you can make it look like you know what you are doing.

"If you know the rules backwards and forward, if you signal mechanics are horse$h!t, it is not going to matter what the rule is you called."

It was said by another official that was in the Big Ten and is our head clinician, he stated,

"Football is a game of rules, basketball is a game of judgment."

The bottom line, football you have to spend much more time learning the rules and understanding all the situations on how to apply them. As a basketball official, I spend more time trying to figure out what I am going to call, rather than what the rules says to call something. Of course there are rules in basketball that take some good understanding, but when I give a T, all I am really thinking about is whether a coaches or players actions warrant a foul of that kind. It is not difficult to figure out how to enforce it. But when I do a football game, it takes some time in many cases to figure out how to enforce what took place.

Peace

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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 01:26am
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Re: I am quoting here.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
"Basketball is 95 percent mechanics and appearance and 5 percent rules."

His point was that if you look the part, hustle have good signal mechanics, you can make it look like you know what you are doing.

"If you know the rules backwards and forward, if you signal mechanics are horse$h!t, it is not going to matter what the rule is you called."

I think that there is some truth in what you say, but there are limits. Good mechanics, appearance, and hustle can help to overshadow one's weakness, but a couple of flawless travel calls can only fly so far the second time a player is knocked to the floor by a defender. (an extreme example)
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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 02:08am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Simbio
Hello everyone. I'm a high school football official, but also an advid basketball fan. Before our season starts, we receive 3-4 different officiating manuals that covers the rules and situations. Football is a game of many rules, but it seems to me that basketball has significantly fewer rules. I have some friends that officiate both football and basketball and they state that you all receive the same manuals before the basketball season and that they are just as thick as the football ones. I've sat down and tried to think of the different penalties and fouls in basketball, but can't come up with that many. I guess my question just comes out of ignorance of never having officiated basketball, but are there that many different situations or things that can happen as comparted to say football? I can only name foul, technical foul, traveling, double dribble, goal tending, palming, flagrant foul, up and down. Some of those terms may just come from the playground in my head. Again, please forgive my ignorance. I was just curious on your feedback.
Football has more complex rules than basketball but is easier to officiate, simply because you do the same things over and over, except for kicking plays.

Basketball has fewer rules but is more difficult to officiate, simply because to the speed of the game and the enclosed area in which it is played.
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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 04:06am
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I feel football is more difficult as the rules are more complex. There is just as much judgement in football as there is in basketball I feel.
The thing about basketball is there is only 10 players and if someone does something it sticks out a bit more than football.
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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 06:56am
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Quote:
Originally posted by cowbyfan1
I feel football is more difficult as the rules are more complex. There is just as much judgement in football as there is in basketball I feel.
The thing about basketball is there is only 10 players and if someone does something it sticks out a bit more than football.
In football you have time! You can think, think, think "yeah he did that" and throw a flag. Then, you can think some more and go pick the flag up! You do have more rules and I really respect that but you have a series of plays that happen in short spurts when in basketball we can have up and down play with situations where you have to be on it right now. As far as players, how many officials are on a football field? I don't know the answer to this. I would think that if there are 4 we are about even as far as the amount of players we have to watch. If there are more then football has the advantage. It would almost be like having a basketball official who is only responsible for a team bringing the ball inbounds and getting it across half court then another one to watch the lines and so forth. I have known someone in the NFL and the one thing I did like about him on the basketball court is his calm demeanor. I don't know if this is just him but he was always calm.

Two different sports that shouldn't be compared.
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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kelvin green
I would pay 200 bucks to officiate a good HS football game or basketball game right now!
Got my first game of the season this Saturday... for $200 its yours. Ashton, Idaho, 7:30 PM your partner is Steve.

Enjoy!

PS. Let me know if you want to buy any more games.
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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 02:30pm
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Thanks for everyone who responded. I had a few thoughts on some of the things that were said. I think that having good mechanics is essential in every sport. And I think that regardless the sport, good mechanics can help aid a lack of rule knowledge, at least to a point. Positioning is also a key in selling your call. If you're in the right place, your call (or no call for that matter) should be less questioned. I suppose the official to player ratio would be about the same in both sports. But, I also think that "judgement" is the same in both sports, with the only real difference is that you do get more time in football to think about a call before making a decision whereas in basketball you have to blow the whistle the second it happens, and know what you called. There is no "waving off" a whistle in basketball...LOL....I think when it comes down to it, there are more rules to football. Though I will admit, I never thought that traveling would take up so many pages in the rule books. I'll have to look at the basketball ones sometime. I think there are some similarities between officiating the two sports, but when all is said and down it is apples to oranges. I can't imagine what football would be like if it was as fast paced as basketball (maybe that's why I don't do it, I like to have the 25 second break in between plays that you don't get in basketball.) Thanks again to all that contributed. I have a deeper respect and a better understanding for what you basketball officials go through. Maybe I'll try it myself someday (for now I'll enjoy the offseason and watch it from my couch.) I've got other questions, but I'm going to start new topics for each one as they are all different. Feel free to respond to those as well. I appreciate all your input.

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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 06:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Quote:
Originally posted by Kelvin green
I would pay 200 bucks to officiate a good HS football game or basketball game right now!
Got my first game of the season this Saturday... for $200 its yours. Ashton, Idaho, 7:30 PM your partner is Steve.

Enjoy!

PS. Let me know if you want to buy any more games.

I'll bid 215!!!!!!
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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 07:32pm
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Tony
I'd take you up on your offer but somehow I just dont think the PRES and SECDEF would let me outta here for a game. Although it would be sure as heck more fun than this place

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Old Wed Nov 12, 2003, 07:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Simbio
(maybe that's why I don't do it, I like to have the 25 second break in between plays that you don't get in basketball.)
which is why I like reffing bball. I like to run up and down the court. I get a rush from reffing a well played fast game. I have been asked to ref V-ball or baseball/softball. But I am afraid of falling asleep!
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Old Thu Nov 13, 2003, 08:42am
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Kelvin, Come on I figure the Pres would let you go..but remember you need to come home to work games...no disrespect to Idaho....


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