Baseball question from a football/basketball ref.

[kylejt]

Here's my question for a basketball ref:

Why do you let coaches yell at you from point blank range? On a baseball field, I'd eject those same coaches within the first few minutes of most basketball games. The first "you" that came flying out of their mouths would get them a trip to the showers, yet BB guys take it all game long.

Why?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Here's my question for a basketball ref:

Why do you let coaches yell at you from point blank range?

It's different in HS and NCAA. For HS, we don't take it: it's a technical foul for the first offense, and ejection for the second.

I don't work NCAA, but I gather that the powers that be want head coaches, especially in televised D1 games, to remain on the floor. So officials have to listen to them. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Here's my question for a basketball ref:

Why do you let coaches yell at you from point blank range? On a baseball field, I'd eject those same coaches within the first few minutes of most basketball games. The first "you" that came flying out of their mouths would get them a trip to the showers, yet BB guys take it all game long.

Why?

Basketball is a much more confined area so the conversations are going to be much closer. Also we can say things to them that we would have to yell at a coach on a baseball field. And if you think basketball officials are just taking crap from coaches, you have not heard enough basketball officials’ stories about coaches. I can tell you these are sometimes much more colorful than I ever hear from baseball umpires. Bottom line this is a different sport with different standards. If you are throwing guys out of every basketball game you will not be around very long. It is really that simple.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Here's my question for a basketball ref:

Why do you let coaches yell at you from point blank range? On a baseball field, I'd eject those same coaches within the first few minutes of most basketball games. The first "you" that came flying out of their mouths would get them a trip to the showers, yet BB guys take it all game long.

Why?

Most of the time, coaches aren't yelling at you point blank. If a coach is truly yelling at you point blank, you're going to be T'd up quick (save for maybe NCAA D-I...HS/Pro allow a lot less crap from their coaches IMO)...which is a tool we have unlike baseball which is all or nothing. And most of the time, coach's aren't getting personal...there are just a lot more plays in a basketball game meaning a lot more plays that are close meaning more questions.

[kylejt]

Maybe it's just the local HS guys. Honestly, nobody, NOBODY would yell at me like these guys get away with. If you wouldn't take in line at the Costco, why would allow it when you're supposed be in charge?

I'd be a lousey BB ref becuase there wouldn't be local coach after 10 minutes on most games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Maybe it's just the local HS guys. Honestly, nobody, NOBODY would yell at me like these guys get away with. If you wouldn't take in line at the Costco, why would allow it when you're supposed be in charge?

I'd be a lousey BB ref becuase there wouldn't be local coach after 10 minutes on most games.

Not many here can speak for your local guys and what they tolerate or should tolerate. I will just say that guys that take the baseball mentality to other sports often end up not doing very well in basketball or football for that matter in my experience. And you said something interesting. You said we are supposed to be in charge. That is true, but that cannot be what you reflect on the basketball court. Your presence and your behavior are supposed to show you are in charge, not you dumping someone. I will put it this way, as a basketball official you have to learn how to tell someone to STFU rather than actually using those words. No big deal, but it is just a different reality than baseball that is really all.

Peace

[kylejt]

I don't take a sport official, of any sport, mentality with me. If you have something to say, say it in a reasonable fashion. I'm just a guy, doin' a job. Don't do anything to me that you wouldn't expect in return. And don't talk to me on a baseball diamond in a way that you wouldn't in a grocery store.

And I'm not the ejecting sort in baseball. Once every three or four years. I just don't let it get to that point. Which is why it mystifies me that other officials allow themselves to be hollered at for the duration of a game.

Actually, I enjoy watching basketball with my baseball pals. They always look to me when some loudmouth coach starts at it. I'll make an ejection motion from the bleachers, just for a laugh. And usually within the first two minutes of a game.

Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by kylejt

...
Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

What level of basketball are you used to watching and where? Definitely not anywhere near where I watch.

[David B]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I don't take a sport official, of any sport, mentality with me. If you have something to say, say it in a reasonable fashion. I'm just a guy, doin' a job. Don't do anything to me that you wouldn't expect in return. And don't talk to me on a baseball diamond in a way that you wouldn't in a grocery store.

And I'm not the ejecting sort in baseball. Once every three or four years. I just don't let it get to that point. Which is why it mystifies me that other officials allow themselves to be hollered at for the duration of a game.

Actually, I enjoy watching basketball with my baseball pals. They always look to me when some loudmouth coach starts at it. I'll make an ejection motion from the bleachers, just for a laugh. And usually within the first two minutes of a game.

Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

Must be some poor coaching that you are used to watching. In our area, coaches most of the time don't yell at officials, they are simply "begging" for a call to go their way.

If a coach does start "yelling", then we have several options on how to deal with them, whereas in baseball, your hands are tied, you only have one option.

Many things have helped basketball, mainly the "coaching box" rules which require the coach to stay confined etc.,

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Honestly zebras, it's time to man up.

This is my point when I say "baseball mentality." You are so worried about your ego or your manhood that you think that officials are taking crap when they clearly are not. And watching big time college basketball, I can say with certainty that the Valentines, Hightowers, Burrs and O'Neils of the world are afraid of coaches saying something to them. Or better yet are afraid to penalize a coach for their behavior.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What level of basketball are you used to watching and where? Definitely not anywhere near where I watch.

Agreed.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

This was alluded to, but not focused on.

The main reason there is such a difference here is that in basketball there is a known intermediate step between nothing and ejection - the technical foul. An actual penalty that hurts the team, but keeps the coach in the game. In baseball and softball, at best you have the warning, which really holds nothing. In basketball, a coach might risk the intermediate step on purpose to rile up his team - the technical foul is PART OF the game.

I can't tell you how often I've wished for a T in baseball or softball.