Failure to Retouch Appeal

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

What in the world are you talking about? I now find myself in Tim's camp. File SAump under Fanboy.

SAump half-remembered something.

Orioles 7, Indians 4 - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

The bizarre sequence started with Baltimore leading 2-1 in the top of the third. Nick Markakis was on third base and Miguel Tejada on first with one out when Ramon Hernandez hit a line drive to center field.

Indians outfielder Grady Sizemore made a diving catch. Markakis tagged up, headed for home and appeared to cross the plate before Tejada was doubled off first. Plate umpire Marvin Hudson waved off the run.

Orioles bench coach Tom Trebelhorn disputed Hudson’s call before the start of the fourth, and Hudson then conferred with Montague and the other umpires.

“We kicked it around and now I’m having a brain cramp on it,” Montague said. “So I sent Bill (umpire Bill Miller) in, I said ‘You know what, cause we’re debating, you go in. Lets make it 100 percent sure.”’

Miller checked the rule and said the run should have counted. Montague was vague about why it took until the sixth to make the change, saying “it kind of went on” with the umpires conferring with the managers.

“It was my screw up and we can’t go off of umpire’s error,” he said. “What’s right is right. We have to score the run.”

[MD Longhorn]

I remember that - and while it was bizarre it is COMPLETELY unrelated to the OP.

[SAump]

Is it possible to throw a rising fastball 90 feet?
Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | NYM@ATL: Reyes retires Heyward with a nice play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Let me relate the two plays for you.

Pagan pivots over 2B while Tejada was smart enuf to pivot before reaching 2B.

Stated Pagan past 2B by a couple of steps. Fanboy here disputes that account.

Pagan states that he did not touch 2B. Still out for failure to retouch, if ump agrees w/ Pagan's statement?

[Larry1953]

Let's say that on the Pirate's catcher's throw to first the first baseman either tagged the runner while he was standing on the bag or stepped on first after catching the ball. That would clearly constitute an attempted appeal, but improperly done since the runner could not be called out either way. The appeal had to be made at second to register the out. But you are only allowed one attempt, so the second one should have been disallowed. However, if the throw went directly from catcher to first to second, with no attempt by the first baseman to render an appeal at first, then the appeal at second should be allowed to stand. I remember a play with Andy Pettitte pitching for the Astros. The batter hit a grounder and the throw got by first with the runner going on to second. However, the runner clearly missed first. Pettitte took his stretch and threw to first without stepping back off the rubber. He was called for a balk and the runner was sent to third. Pettitte got the ball back, stepped off the rubber and made another throw to first. The umps waved off that appeal because you are only allowed one appeal. I am surprised they didn't call him for yet another balk for throwing to an unoccupied base, even though he was off the rubber the second time.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Let's say that on the Pirate's catcher's throw to first the first baseman either tagged the runner while he was standing on the bag or stepped on first after catching the ball. That would clearly constitute an attempted appeal, but improperly done since the runner could not be called out either way. The appeal had to be made at second to register the out. But you are only allowed one attempt, so the second one should have been disallowed. However, if the throw went directly from catcher to first to second, with no attempt by the first baseman to render an appeal at first, then the appeal at second should be allowed to stand. I remember a play with Andy Pettitte pitching for the Astros. The batter hit a grounder and the throw got by first with the runner going on to second. However, the runner clearly missed first. Pettitte took his stretch and threw to first without stepping back off the rubber. He was called for a balk and the runner was sent to third. Pettitte got the ball back, stepped off the rubber and made another throw to first. The umps waved off that appeal because you are only allowed one appeal. I am surprised they didn't call him for yet another balk for throwing to an unoccupied base, even though he was off the rubber the second time.

On an apppeal you can tag the runner or the base so the appeal does not have to be made at 2B.

You can appeal each runner at each base. So if there's a runner who missed 2B on the way back to first you can appeal both the miss of 2B AND the failure to reach 1B in time.

The Pettitte play was called incorrectly. The MLBUM clearly states the pitcher can throw to an unoccupied base from the rubber to make an appeal,

[Larry1953]

Thanks Rich for correcting me. Here is an interesting link explaining the intricacies of making an appeal.

The Appeal Play

Pitchers are taught to step off the rubber to make an appeal to prevent the possibility of a balk call that would negate the appeal, but it is indeed not a requirement. Since dropping the ball is about the only way to balk in that situation (assuming Bob Davidson does not detect an irregular heart beat or an untimely drop of sweat), a pitcher does not risk much by doing it the way Pettitte did. Perhaps I missed something - maybe the Astros made a throw down to second, constituting an intervening play which would have negated a chance at a subsequent appeal on the runner missing the bag at first. Could that have done it? In my years of watching I have never seen an appeal by tagging the runner while he was standing on a base. It seems the throw is always made to the base in question.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Thanks Rich for correcting me. Here is an interesting link explaining the intricacies of making an appeal.

The Appeal Play

Pitchers are taught to step off the rubber to make an appeal to prevent the possibility of a balk call that would negate the appeal, but it is indeed not a requirement. Since dropping the ball is about the only way to balk in that situation (assuming Bob Davidson does not detect an irregular heart beat or an untimely drop of sweat), a pitcher does not risk much by doing it the way Pettitte did. Perhaps I missed something - maybe the Astros made a throw down to second, constituting an intervening play which would have negated a chance at a subsequent appeal on the runner missing the bag at first. Could that have done it? In my years of watching I have never seen an appeal by tagging the runner while he was standing on a base. It seems the throw is always made to the base in question.

I had forgotten that Steve Cutchen had that website and frankly am surprised that it is still up since I have not seen nor heard from him in over 10 years. He used to be a valuable contributor to the officiating board and lived just up the road from me.

Anyone here heard from him prior to the last decade?

Joel